^This is key and it bothers the hell out if me that all these fancy schmancy jacket makers that seem to cater to "our" crowd don't make their jackets with the dual zippers.Originally Posted by OnionsAndDragons
^This is key and it bothers the hell out if me that all these fancy schmancy jacket makers that seem to cater to "our" crowd don't make their jackets with the dual zippers.
I have dealt with extreme cold for a fair amount of years. I basically do what onions and dragons layed out, with some variation as to how dressy the concealing layer needs to be for where I will be going.
I don't snowboard, but the few times I skied, I just wore my normal gear, but accepted the fact that I would be slower by closing up my jacket all the way. No big deal.
I wear PIG gloves, and keep my hands in my pockets as much as possible for warmth when needed. I never wear bulky gloves, unless a long gun is in my hands.
That vest is a poor example, because it's designed to be lifted away from a gun; however a lot of the zippered stuff I wear when it's really cold is fitted, so it won't lift up and away to clear a gun.
With that vest, I'd probably run one of the side flaps unzipped and just do a relatively normal AIWB draw.
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I figured I’d chime in on this one. I live at about 9000’ in the San Juans and it’s truly winter here 7+ months a year. I spend a good portion of my time both at work and during my free time outdoors. I typically spend 60 or more days a year with skis on my feet.
My standard is still AIWB. As it gets colder, in particular if I’m going to be active in the cold, I’ll have thin base layers tucked in under the gun.
I find the following to help:
-Keep under-layers on the thinner side such that they can be tucked in without excessive discomfort.
-Keep mid-layers fewer. If more insulation is required, go heavier rather than having a bunch of thinner layers confounding things. I typically wear something along the lines of an Arcteryx Atom or a Patagonia nano hoody as a mid layer in colder weather. Then if needed I’ll add a hard shell+ over it. Same concept as the hoody sweatshirt, but with real “R value” and moisture wicking capability.
-Develop a garment clearing technique that doesn't rely on a particular hang or specific type of clothing. For me personally, that means not relying on having my fingers underneath the edge of the coat or shirt. But instead I focus on grasping a fistful of material at or slightly above the gun then clearing from there. I don’t ever plan on manipulating zippers as part of my draw. My sentiment is if you’re relying on doing so in the cold, potentially with gloves, under stress, you’re stacking the odds against you.
This "heavier clothing technique" is incidentally very similar to an appendix draw from beneath a tucked in garment (dress shirt, uniform shirt, etc.) I carry my backup at work in this fashion, so the technique segues nicely.
Just a couple cents.
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Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far
I have four solutions to winter carry. Three of which are sub-optimal.
Sub-optimal 1: and my most often used mode. AIWB with a t-shirt on and a sweater over the top. I like the knit sweaters from LL Bean, with the elastic waistband. I buy them a tad too long (not difficult to do at my 5'7" height), so that they extend a couple of inches past the waist of my pants. I buy them in dark colors and patterns (again not hard to do). This allows me plenty of concealment with quick accessing. - For the weather, when I need a coat (basically, anything under 45-degrees for me). I want to go with an open coat or if absolutely necessary to button the coat up - I wear a toggle coat. The toggle coat is easier to unbutton/release than anything with zippers. - This is suboptimal, because it is less layers and therefore doesn't keep you as warm. But this works well for me to about 10-15 degrees unless the wind is blowing super hard.
Sub-optimal 2: Parka-time. It's cold as fuck and I have to break out the gigantic parka. - J-Frame in the hand warmer pocket of my parka. This is the pocket up high on the chest, that gets your hands closer to your core. Works well, for having a gun in hand and staying warm. This is in some ways less sub-optimal than my sweater/coat combo, but it has the disadvantage of being in a gigantic parka that limits your mobility and vision.
Sub-optimal 3: The one I'm starting to experiment with - Off body carry. A sling bag that can carry my daily gear + a gun. Is ideal for me, in the sense that I am always with my bag, and it has the advantage of being the outermost layer of whatever I am wearing. Down-side(s) all of them that come with off-body carry.
Optimal Solution - This is the one I want to do the most - Move back to Texas from Chicago.
On the topic of Gloves...
Last year I think I posted on here that I was trying out "pop top convertible mitten finger-less gloves" or whatever you call them. Anyways, they didn't work out as well I as had hoped. For pocket carry, having them flipped up in finger-less glove mode made them too bulky to get into the pocket easy. And having them in mitten mode, I could get into my pocket okay, but then my trigger finger was covered up. doh.
Anyways, that brings me to this year's test. Straight up finger-less gloves, specifically black USGI wool ones. They look hobo-chic' with the added benefit of being able to use a smart phone a whole lot easier than "smart" gloves. I'm a little worried about my finger tips getting cold, but most of the time I'm only a short walk in between my vehicle and home / work. But we'll see if they hold up to clearing snow off the vehicle.
Off body carry scares me because I am convinced it's not a question of if but when I'm going to forget that bag
Gloves are the hardest thing to get "right". It seems so simple and yet is so hard. The bottomline the fingerless wool ones won't work well if you're clearing the car of heavy snow. Instead, go with two pairs of gloves. Where your Glomitts for clearing the car, then take them off when you get inside. This protects your hands the most. They will be wet and the wool takes awhile to dry, so then go to a different pair like your fingerless gloves.
For temps in the 30s, fingerless rag wool from Fox River get the nod - https://www.foxsox.com/products/mid-...nt=21285799105
For temps below that Outdoor Research Alibi II Ice-Climbing Gloves - https://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/a...9977d2d57.html
The ice-climbing gloves are as close to perfect for a pair of nearly do-all winter gloves. They fit tight and have great dexterity allowing me to actually shoot a J-Frame in them. They're fairly waterproof (waterproofing works two ways, unfortunately in AND out and that means if you start sweating inside you're boned), while still wicking moisture away. The downside is they don't cover the wrist (heat loss). You trade warmth for dexterity. The Alibi IIs are the best $80 investment I've ever made in winter gear. Between those gloves and this bad ass hat by Crye Precision - https://www.cryeprecision.com/Produc...02000_skullcap - You will be fine with most other layers.
The Skullcap by Crye - is legitimately worth the money, especially if you wear glasses/other eyewear regularly. The eye-piece tunnels are FUCKING GENIUS. They reduce the wind blowing into your hat. The cut of the hat doesn't impede peripheral vision like other hats. With the dexterity offered by the Alibi IIs. A mid-weight layering piece liked Prometheus Design Werx's JAAC Hoodie, and either a softshell or a coat, you're maximally prepared for winter.
My hands and feet don't get cold as long as I'm moving so I either forgo the gloves or if I'm going to be opening gates or have to hang onto a fence to keep from falling I wear these thin cop gloves that they use to search people without getting stuck.
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