KSTG

[TheRoland]

Candidly, I do not remember our rationale beyond thinking no one really CCWs a .45 revolver.

In .45ACP, the N-Frame S&W 325 Nightguard is probably more reasonable in practice than the 4" 686s that dominate. I'm not sure how, or if there's a desire, to include short N-frames while excluding the less practical 4" 625s.

With the unfortunate advent of the Judge and the Governor, Speer is probably selling more of their Gold Dot .45 Colt load, too. Excluding these shooters might not be a bad thing, though .

I don't happen to own a 1911---so I'm just curious. Will most carry 1911s have a trigger pull weight above 4 pounds?

I carried 1911s before switching to polymer, and my carry 1911s will not all make four pounds. But the majority will.

[BN]

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Hi Todd,

Looks like fun.

Some things I noticed. Glock 34 and 35 can't play because of the 5" barrel rule??

Will the 41 oz. rule eliminate some of the steel SIGs?

Some (probably a lot) of revolvers won't fit the box. A 4" S&W K-Frame round butt with the small factory grips will barely fit. A S&W K-Frame square butt revolver probably won't fit at all. Almost any aftermarket grips will keep them from fitting.

Power factor might be pretty tough to make in 38 Special. I was loading to 825-850 fps with a 158 bullet to make the old IDPA factor of 125 with a cushion and that was up into plusP range.

Good luck,

Bill

[ToddG]

Glock 34 and 35 can't play because of the 5" barrel rule??

Correct.

Will the 41 oz. rule eliminate some of the steel SIGs?

It may.

Some (probably a lot) of revolvers won't fit the box. A 4" S&W K-Frame round butt with the small factory grips will barely fit. A S&W K-Frame square butt revolver probably won't fit at all. Almost any aftermarket grips will keep them from fitting.

The thought process was: if it would be too big as a semiauto, how is it not too big as a revolver? So if we increase the dimensions for revolvers, we have to increase it for all guns. The number of people I know who CCW a 4" revolver (or G34/G35) is very small. Not zero, but they are definitely outliers. As with any game, if we try to accommodate all the outliers for people who honestly truly swear-to-God carry gun XYZ, it widens the gap between the typical CCW guy and the gamer who gets a gun that just barely fits within the rules. That's how the G34/G35 came into being... they were designed specifically to be as big as possible but still fit inside the IDPA box.

Power factor might be pretty tough to make in 38 Special. I was loading to 825-850 fps with a 158 bullet to make the old IDPA factor of 125 with a cushion and that was up into plusP range.

Speaking only for myself, given how many people do in fact have to resort to +p loads in their .38 Specials for defensive use, I don't see that as a bad thing. If a 110PF or 250 ft-lbs load is "good enough" in a .38, why not a 9mm? Why not allow a .380? Etc. It's easy to slide down that slope.

Please don't take any of these comments as final. I'm just trying to provide responses to questions about where our minds were when we wrote this stuff 2+ years ago. If things need to change, we're certainly willing to make good changes.

[BN]

Todd,

Thanks for the quick answers.

I don't carry a revolver but I've been known to play around with them.

Bill

[TheRoland]

Speaking only for myself, given how many people do in fact have to resort to +p loads in their .38 Specials for defensive use, I don't see that as a bad thing. If a 110PF or 250 ft-lbs load is "good enough" in a .38, why not a 9mm? Why not allow a .380? Etc. It's easy to slide down that slope.

I'm sure you're well aware of the counter-argument here, which is that people who do not reload .38 will find it very difficult to play with a wheelgun.

I think the box actually solves my concern about .45ACP revolvers, if the caliber was allowed. Without measuring, I think a short 325 might fit, but a 4" 625 almost certainly will not.

[BN]

I have an old S&W 25-2 that has had the barrel cut back to 4" and the grip frame round butted. With the small factory wood grips it will fit an IDPA box. I think the 325 will fit fine. The 625 might but someone would have to try it because it will be very close.

[jar]

I like the reload under fire rule a lot. I hope IDPA goes in this direction. One question on that, the rule is in effect when exposed to any target not neutralized, not any target not engaged. This makes sense to me, but it may be difficult to enforce accurately. If you find an FTN when scoring the targets, you have to remember where the reload was to see if there's a penalty.

I'm not sure what a better solution to the major/minor situation is, but I don't think 'high major' will prevent the situation where everyone who wants to be competitive shoots 9mm.

I understand the intent of the power floor rules, but the fact that I'd have to make up a special load would make me less likely to shoot a KTSG match.

Can I build up bigass bumps on the side of the grip panels to allow me to use a full size magwell?

Why exclude calibers like 38 super or 9x21? I don't see any competitive advantage, and those are common defensive calibers in countries with wacky laws.

I don't like requiring the shooter to indicate that he's ready. I prefer the USPSA way of only issuing 'are you ready' when the shooter is in the start position and continuing to standby if he doesn't move out of the start position or otherwise indicate not ready. Similarly, I prefer 'If you are finished, unload and show clear'. As an RO/SO, I don't want to be in the position of a shooter saying you made me unload, but I was going to pick up that missed headshot I saw. The lack of hammer down seems like a difference for the sake of one to me, but that's probably because I'm a gamer through and through.

Am I reading correctly that I can load a gun in a safe area as long as I arrive at the next stage with it unloaded? That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[turbolag23]

Todd,

For clarification, the following rule would disqualify "C" model Glocks correct?

3. Barrel: 5 inches maximum, no porting or compensators allowed.

[Skold]

I don't like requiring the shooter to indicate that he's ready. I prefer the USPSA way of only issuing 'are you ready' when the shooter is in the start position and continuing to standby if he doesn't move out of the start position or otherwise indicate not ready. Similarly, I prefer 'If you are finished, unload and show clear'. As an RO/SO, I don't want to be in the position of a shooter saying you made me unload, but I was going to pick up that missed headshot I saw. The lack of hammer down seems like a difference for the sake of one to me, but that's probably because I'm a gamer through and through.

From reading your comment, when starting the same argument can be made as the if shooter is finished unload and show clear. If the shooter is not ready at the beginning and some SO's just love to quick buzz you, you really might not be ready....I'd say that's worse than at the end where they normally only say unload and show clear when you have stopped shooting and appear to be done. Not attacking you or anyone, it was just a thought.

[jetfire]

Now to construct the ultimate KSTG gamer gun!