KSTG

[theblacknight]

[cclaxton]

Let's hear what others think about the G34/G35 for a game designed around CCW...

I would argue the main reason to allow Glock 34/35 is because of the population used in IDPA and the number of shooters who use them all the time in IDPA and IPSC. After all, this is a GAME, right?

If the argument is that the 34/35 gives a shooter an advantage, then perhaps we should be arguing FOR CCW with longer barrels?

Perhaps a compromise is to find a way to adjust the points when shooting with a 34/35/etc.? Could we give them their own division?

I would be interested in a survey/poll to find out how many people truly carry the firearm (or a nearly identical firearm) that they use in competition. I am guessing that most people compete with a different gun in IDPA and definitely IPSC.

I compete with a Glock 34 in SSP, and a Cz75 in ESP for IDPA, and I actually carry a Kahr PM9 or a Cz2075 RAMI and sometimes a Bersa .380CC(hot weather). In a gunfight/defense it all comes down to shot placement, draw speed, shot speed, tactics, and judgement anyway. If the goal is to more accurately compete using CCW weapons, perhaps the barrel length should be a maximum of 4" for CCW weapons and 5.5" for CCW-LongBarrel class?

While you are at it, why not create a division for BUG class guns, with 3.6" barrels and .32/.380 caliber guns. You might attract more women to the game that way....always a good idea IMHO. (Not suggesting women can't shoot major and 9mm class....but the statistics suggest women choose smaller caliber guns.)
CC

[John Hearne]

I would be interested in a survey/poll to find out how many people truly carry the firearm (or a nearly identical firearm) that they use in competition. I am guessing that most people compete with a different gun in IDPA and definitely IPSC.

I can save you a lot of work - not many. For most folks IDPA and IPSC is a game and the best case scenario is that they have a Kel-Tec .32 stuck in a pocket. The folks on this board are all outliers, it's just a matter of how many standard deviations they are from the base line.

I like the KTSG concept, I just don't like the weight limit which will likely exclude my stainless Sigs, which I do carry every day. But, I also use open top magazine pouches on my duty rig 'cause I like every reasonable advantage I can get.

[cclaxton]

Here's another thought on the 5" barrel limitation: The Cz75B has a 4.7" barrel and weighs about 39oz and is slightly longer than a Glock 34 and will fit into an IDPA box, but yet the Glock 34/35 can't be used and it has a 5.3" barrel and weighs less than the Cz75B.

I like the IDPA rule: If it fits in the box and weighs less than X (where X depends on the division), then it should be allowed. In fact, I would like to see the IDPA rule changed to allow more weight for SSP and another division below that with a smaller box and lower weight. Let's call it COMPACT DIVISION. This makes it different from BUG division.

I would suggest a box that fits 7" long guns and weighs no more than 31oz. (Glock, Springfield, Cz, Sig, Ruger, Walther, Kahr, Bersa, etc. all have guns that fit this category in 9mm and most in .40 as well.)
That way you are accomodating the entire range of shooters and CCW.
CC

[ToddG]

We're very specifically trying not to create multiple divisions. We could solve everything in the world by creating "Todd's division" and "SLG's division" and another division for each person's ideal setup.

[ToddG]

Rule changes codified in the Dec'11 draft:

• no moon clip revolvers
• must have both feet on the ground when shooting around the side of vertical cover
• SERPA and similar holsters banned
• base "Master" Classifier score changed from 5.00 to 6.00, with all other times adjusted appropriately

[jar]

We're very specifically trying not to create multiple divisions. We could solve everything in the world by creating "Todd's division" and "SLG's division" and another division for each person's ideal setup.

And I, for one, commend you for that. I've been enjoying shooting 3 gun, rifle, and shotgun, where I get to compete against 80%+ of match attendees. There's not much pride to be had in coming in first in left handed shooters whose barrel length is between 4.9 and 5.1 inches and trigger weight is between 4.0 and 4.5 pounds shooting ammo with a power factor between 131.4 and 134.5 division.

[Little Creek]

Why no moon clip revolvers?

[Little Creek]

There is no rule about hybrid holsters and no rule based on our particular like or dislike of any design or material. The retention requirement is something you would have heard from either of us before there ever was a hybrid, and it is entirely possible to make a hybrid with adequate retention.

Also, upon further discussion with SLG:

Revolver rule decisions

• 6rd capacity limit; if you want to shoot a revolver that holds more, you can load no more than 6 at a time
• no moon clips

I do not understand why the "no moon clips". Is technology good for autos, but not revolvers? The fastest reload with a revolver is a moon clip. Reloads with a moon clip are less likely to be fumbled than reloads with a speed loader. Do auto shooters feel threatened by revolvers? It appears that revolvers are being given lip service at best.

[ToddG]

Two reasons. which I'm sure were outlined previously in the thread:

1. The number of people who actually carry moon clip revolvers every day is very close to zero.
2. If moon clip revolvers are allowed, moon clip revolvers will be necessary. You won't be competitive unless you have a moon clip revolver. So the guy who honestly CCWs a .38 every day will have to go out and buy specialized competition-only gear just to play.