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Thread: FAST coin # 15 and the advancement of pistol shooting

  1. #1

    FAST coin # 15 and the advancement of pistol shooting

    I have been thinking about this a fair bit, and have discussed it with many shooters, both better and worse than me.

    I apologize to Asian Jedi for saying that his accomplishment is not the same. I believe my rational was correct, but in retrospect, it just doesn't matter, and I didn't need to open an argument over a trivial thing like hardware. If someone wants to shoot with a gun they actually carry, especially a civilian who can carry whatever he wants, more power to him. It is not my place to opine on the merits of these things. Technology and weapons will not advance if everyone sticks to what we've always used. Period.


    Now, in addition to that, this whole thing has really gotten me interested in how various accessories affect a shooters ability to hit fast and accurately. So, I'm breaking out my "Roland Special", and I'm going to shoot various drills to see how different components affect me. I may or may not post them up here, as I'm not looking to open or reopen any arguments. I'm genuinely interested in the technology, and as a lifelong performance shooter, my interest is always in higher performance.

    I hope Asian Jedi accepts my aplogies, as well as my intents. I can be too grumpy sometimes, and also fixed in my ways.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    After reading that last thread, I thought to myself that a Roland Special might be in my future. Frankly, the only reason it's not likely to happen is that my agency's policy on personal weapons SPECIFICALLY prohibits both compensators and optics, which are deemed "competition only" changes. And, I'm too dang cheap to invest the kind of coin needed to build a Roland if I'm not going to carry it at work.

    And, there's NO chance I'll ever be in the running for #16, given the fact that I'm down to shooting once a quarter, if I'm lucky, and then only 1-300 rounds per session. I, for one, would be personally interested in how your experiment works out, though, so I'd be happy to see you post results.

  3. #3
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    After reading that last thread, I thought to myself that a Roland Special might be in my future. Frankly, the only reason it's not likely to happen is that my agency's policy on personal weapons SPECIFICALLY prohibits both compensators and optics, which are deemed "competition only" changes. And, I'm too dang cheap to invest the kind of coin needed to build a Roland if I'm not going to carry it at work.

    And, there's NO chance I'll ever be in the running for #16, given the fact that I'm down to shooting once a quarter, if I'm lucky, and then only 1-300 rounds per session. I, for one, would be personally interested in how your experiment works out, though, so I'd be happy to see you post results.
    Consider introducing just one variable at a time. I'd suggest adding the comp first and run it with irons. I've found it to be an advantage for hitting accurately quicker. How big of an advantage so far has depended on the drill and whether some attribute of it cancels out any comp advantages.

    But for myself and another four shooters that have shot my pistol or who've screwed this barrel and comp onto their G19s, they've all seen it improve their shooting.

    For example, PF member BES (currently forum MIA for reasons I think) was introduced to The Test with his close to stock G19 and he shot it clean under 10 sec a few times.

    But then using the KKM comp I watched him shoot a half dozen consecutive Tests in the 6-7 second range which was like a second faster than clean without the comp and of all those shots there was ONE outside the black and the 10 ring had been turned into a rat hole. I was shooting with him a LOT during that period and there was no doubt whatsoever he got more accurate at a faster tempo with it.
    Last edited by JHC; 11-29-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Now, in addition to that, this whole thing has really gotten me interested in how various accessories affect a shooters ability to hit fast and accurately. So, I'm breaking out my "Roland Special", and I'm going to shoot various drills to see how different components affect me. I may or may not post them up here, as I'm not looking to open or reopen any arguments. I'm genuinely interested in the technology, and as a lifelong performance shooter, my interest is always in higher performance.
    What would be interesting would be if there was data on how much each component added to performance. E.g. How do the times change with comp only, RDS only, neither, and both. Same with the speed on reloads with the magwell and such. In any case, still very solid shooting to earn the coin.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I have been thinking about this a fair bit, and have discussed it with many shooters, both better and worse than me.

    I apologize to Asian Jedi for saying that his accomplishment is not the same. I believe my rational was correct, but in retrospect, it just doesn't matter, and I didn't need to open an argument over a trivial thing like hardware. If someone wants to shoot with a gun they actually carry, especially a civilian who can carry whatever he wants, more power to him. It is not my place to opine on the merits of these things. Technology and weapons will not advance if everyone sticks to what we've always used. Period.


    Now, in addition to that, this whole thing has really gotten me interested in how various accessories affect a shooters ability to hit fast and accurately. So, I'm breaking out my "Roland Special", and I'm going to shoot various drills to see how different components affect me. I may or may not post them up here, as I'm not looking to open or reopen any arguments. I'm genuinely interested in the technology, and as a lifelong performance shooter, my interest is always in higher performance.

    I hope Asian Jedi accepts my aplogies, as well as my intents. I can be too grumpy sometimes, and also fixed in my ways.
    Post the drills and your times I want to run them with my voodoo special
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  6. #6
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    FAST coin # 15 and the advancement of pistol shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Consider introducing just one variable at a time. I'd suggest adding the comp first and run it with irons. I've found it to be an advantage for hitting accurately quicker. How big of an advantage so far has depended on the drill and whether some attribute of it cancels out any comp advantages.

    But for myself and another four shooters that have shot my pistol or who've screwed this barrel and comp onto their G19s, they've all seen it improve their shooting.

    For example, PF member BES (currently forum MIA for reasons I think) was introduced to The Test with his close to stock G19 and he shot it clean under 10 sec a few times.

    But then using the KKM comp I watched him shoot a half dozen consecutive Tests in the 6-7 second range which was like a second faster than clean without the comp and of all those shots there was ONE outside the black and the 10 ring had been turned into a rat hole. I was shooting with him a LOT during that period and there was no doubt whatsoever he got more accurate at a faster tempo with it.
    I suspect the comp is the bigger difference maker here. It doesn't change what the shooter sees. This being the case I'd also bet that the difference between irons and RDS is back to where it was in 2010 and folks with vision deficiencies are the ones the benefit the most.


    In the case of the fauxpen gun you're also adding weight to the front, with a comp, so tackling recoil two different ways.


    This makes something like the Agency Noc look rather appealing.

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    Last edited by orionz06; 11-29-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Now, in addition to that, this whole thing has really gotten me interested in how various accessories affect a shooters ability to hit fast and accurately. So, I'm breaking out my "Roland Special", and I'm going to shoot various drills to see how different components affect me. I may or may not post them up here, as I'm not looking to open or reopen any arguments. I'm genuinely interested in the technology, and as a lifelong performance shooter, my interest is always in higher performance.
    Please post the data!

    Do you intend to spend enough time with it to get attuned to it, whatever that means? I've often figured it'd take about a month of weekly practices and a some dryfire before data on new hardware is relevant.

  8. #8
    This is a shallow attempt by SLG to gather "Likes."

    Kidding aside, my view was and still is, that given how closely associated the FAST is with Todd, this was a grief thing, and Asian Jedi was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    As to the unfair advantage, when I asked YVK what he thought, his response was that he wanted to buy a comp'd KKM barrel for his 19.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Now, in addition to that, this whole thing has really gotten me interested in how various accessories affect a shooters ability to hit fast and accurately. So, I'm breaking out my "Roland Special", and I'm going to shoot various drills to see how different components affect me.
    If you'll excuse my geeking out: if you're wanting to be TLG-level thorough, you might want to really focus on only a few components. Using five components will give you 120 different combinations to try, whereas four components would just give you 24.

    I'd also really be interested in seeing what turns out.
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I have been thinking about this a fair bit, and have discussed it with many shooters, both better and worse than me.

    I apologize to Asian Jedi for saying that his accomplishment is not the same. I believe my rational was correct, but in retrospect, it just doesn't matter, and I didn't need to open an argument over a trivial thing like hardware. If someone wants to shoot with a gun they actually carry, especially a civilian who can carry whatever he wants, more power to him. It is not my place to opine on the merits of these things. Technology and weapons will not advance if everyone sticks to what we've always used. Period.


    Now, in addition to that, this whole thing has really gotten me interested in how various accessories affect a shooters ability to hit fast and accurately. So, I'm breaking out my "Roland Special", and I'm going to shoot various drills to see how different components affect me. I may or may not post them up here, as I'm not looking to open or reopen any arguments. I'm genuinely interested in the technology, and as a lifelong performance shooter, my interest is always in higher performance.

    I hope Asian Jedi accepts my aplogies, as well as my intents. I can be too grumpy sometimes, and also fixed in my ways.
    Although an apology is not necessary, it is humbly accepted.

    To reiterate, I did not mind the message but rather was disappointed that it came from someone so close to Todd. I am sure my responses were overly defensive and fanned the flames a bit. So I, in return, offer my apologies.

    With that behind us, if anyone wants to discuss the merits, differences, advantages of the Roland config with the comp only vs comp + RMR, vs an RMR only gun, I am happy to lend any insight I have.
    Last edited by AsianJedi; 11-29-2016 at 01:15 PM.
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