Additional UX IED recovered at location. Seems to settle the argument of which side done brung it.
Unfortunately wont likely be the last we see of that TTP at major protests in fhe coming year. Though I would wish very much to be wrong in that.
Additional UX IED recovered at location. Seems to settle the argument of which side done brung it.
Unfortunately wont likely be the last we see of that TTP at major protests in fhe coming year. Though I would wish very much to be wrong in that.
Last edited by abu fitna; 11-25-2016 at 11:30 PM.
Do you have a reference? I did a google search but nothing came up.Originally Posted by abu fitna
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Media reporting at http://www.valleynewslive.com/conten...402544435.html
As always public info only so please take with a grain or a few pounds of salt.
Last edited by abu fitna; 11-26-2016 at 12:01 AM.
Another look: http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/11...ssion-grenade/
Interesting. Thanks for the replies, all. The thing that I have a hard time explaining is why her injury was localized to her proximal arm. If she was handling the IED when it went off (presuming this was the origin of her injuries), it should have damaged her hand(s), not her bicep/elbow. If she was cradling it, I presume she would have had diffuse injuries of upper/lower arm, possibly both arms. I also assume if it was a propane explosive there would be more burns, too, but from the photos it doesn't look like the recovered cylinders exploded. It seems like if it was an IED, it must have been a smaller charge attached to the cylinder that detonated prematurely and injured Ms Wilansky without detonating the propane cylinder. That would explain what is described as human tissue on the propane cylinder in the Bearing Arms link.
At the same time, I have a hard time understanding how it could be an LE device, too. The only plausible explanation I can find (assuming it was an LE device) would be that it was thrown/tossed and either landed on her arm or detonated directly adjacent to her arm while in the air, without causing significant burn/heat injury. This also strikes me as extremely unlikely but still possible, per the responses you all have given me.
Still not sure if I am any close to understanding what happened but I am definitely better educated than when I posted this a few days ago. thanks for the thoughtful responses, all.
edit: One thing I hadn't considered was that maybe her injury was caused by one of those propane tanks rupturing prematurely, which honestly makes the most sense given her wounds. If the propane tank was punctured, it seems plausible to me that the expanding gas would "explode" with enough force to seriously injure her without necessarily causing any burns. This strikes me as the most likely explanation given the sum of evidence I have now...
Last edited by Nephrology; 11-27-2016 at 08:53 AM.
Nephrology, if you do a search for LE distraction devices you can find plenty of info on them. We used steel body devices that could be reloaded with charges from the manufacturer. All you had to do was unscrew the fired one and screw in a new one complete with pin, etc. The bodies had a finite service life, but it was quite a few firings. The light/noise vented out of holes in each end, and while they could blow stuff around the floor there were no fragments. I had one instructor (ex-EOD guy) who said he held onto one while it detonated with no ill effects.
The simplest answer is that LE didn't have any bombs and the protestors did.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
I converted my guys off the old Accuracy Systems stuff (which was awesome in performance, but I felt held a lot of potential liability) to the Def Tec #25's. While performance was not as good, we could throw a lot of them. Their safety made it easy to prep every room prior to entry on dynamic entries. Yes, you can even hold them when the go off, and I have had countless numbers of them go off literally at my feet in training, and I have been inside vehicles when they were deployed inside. They were a very effective tool and very easy to use and work with safely at an operational level.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
I've seen the aftermath of people being too close to the vent ports on devices like the Def Tec 25s that DB noted, it doesn't look like what the picture shows.
I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
www.agiletactical.com
I have a little bit of experience in LTL munition design. I'm skeptical that this was caused by a device deployed by LE; my initial impression would lean towards the protestor IED theory.
I've have LSDDs ignite at my feet. I've seen them ignite in closed areas within feet of people with no ill effects. I've never done it but I've watched venders hold them when they ignite. There's only a couple of devices I can think of that might cause injuries other than burns if you were holding them when they ignite. Both are pretty rare now in a market dominated by DefTec and CTS. As it's been mentioned the ports on both are on the bottom and top of the device.
I can't see how a LSDD would cause that type of injury which sure looks like a fragmentation injury.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
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