Captains of Crush Grippers: What's your grip strength?

[LSP552]

A LOT. Seriously, I've been reading old shooting books and they are very adamant that the gun must fit your hand properly. If it doesn't fit get another gun is the standard line. By fit they mean that the interaction of the grip/hand makes it easy to press the trigger straight back.

In a chapter on selecting grips they discuss a right hander shooting to the left. What do they offer as an explanation? Shooting a grip that is too large. Where do Glock shooters tend to throw shots? What is the commonly accepted fix for this - sink more trigger finger which has the effect of pulling the gun back to the right.

I see super amounts of grip strength as a crutch to fix this issue. If you can increase the pressure of the "vise" holding the gun, you can minimize deflection of the gun caused by actuation of the trigger. Is this an effective solution - yes as it fixes the problem but, maybe not having the problem in the first place might be a better solution.

My personal opinion is that we've become so fixated on capacity that we neglect and sacrifice shooting well. I would offer that a lot of folks are shooting guns that are too large for their hand. They would shoot better, and need less ammo, if they actually had a gun that fit their hand.

"Enough" is a relative term. I carried a revolver as a duty gun and BUG for my first seven years. Going to an 8+1 gun was a 50% increase in capacity and the auto reloads much faster than the revolver. Having "just" 9 rounds means a lot less to me by way of perspective than those raised on plastic framed, striker fired guns.

Incidentally, the other factor mentioned in the old books is weight. Heavier guns are seen as superior to lighter guns. A lot of this has to do with additional mass resisting deflection when actuating the trigger. The extra mass also has the effect of reducing felt recoil. I've done some side by side shooting with my alloy frame Sigs versus steel frame Sigs and the difference is very obvious. I'm faster and more accurate with the gun that has an extra 12 oz.

Completely agree. Us old guys remember revolver stocks....

I've done my best shooting across the board with revolvers and SIGs. Fit to allow proper trigger manipulation is a key reason for this. I shoot Glocks well, but it requires an adaptation of my technique and grip. There is a P239 under my vest as I type.

I didn't mean to derail the thread. Might be good to split off?

[GRV]

This is extremely interesting. Thanks to everyone chiming in.

I have avoided the CoCs entirely based on the reputation they have for injury. There was a period of time where I was gripping my gun as hard as possible in dryfire/livefire, combined with pullups, that was leaving me waking up with tendon issues like "trigger finger". I had to stop dryfiring for a while for it to heal. Since then, I've been very wary. Actually TC, I probably have you to blame After your remarks about gripping with the last two fingers to me at Sean's class....well.....let's just say I guess I overdid it.

I was just about to buy one of those $25 grip dynamometers off amazon when these grippers popped up in the gym. I knew a lot of people here had experience with them, so they seem like a good standard for comparison, even if they are not the best way to build grip strength.

This video might be of interest


I also made sure to do preventative exercises to help prevent over training.

That's actually what motivated this Just rewatched it before starting the thread. For those who haven't sat through it, Ron says he likes to see 1-5 reps with a #1 with each hand for an adult male. Based on the poll, it looks like we're validating that.

Of perhaps even more relevance than what COC I can close, a while back I realized that I was not applying a significant chunk of my grip strength with either hand. I was essentially gripping the gun with just the circle you can make with the middle finger and thumb on my right hand while the last two fingers just sort of hung out not doing much. Same with the left. I realized it one day when I was half-heartedly dry-firing my Glock 34 and I had a flashback to watching Bob Vogel grip his pistol in the holster.

Craig has mentioned that it took him quite a bit of time lifting under the eye of an exceptionally good coach to really learn how to "fire" significant muscle chains in complex lifts. I'm certainly no expert but I think there's something to that with grip strength, too. People think they are gripping the gun hard but are they really? Maybe I'm the only one overlooking it. Maybe not.

That's encouraging, in a weird sort of way. I've been working 1 hr, 2-3 days a week for the past few months with a strength coach whose day job is training NCAA athletes. I've certainly been making progress, but definitely not as fast as I hoped. I have definitely experienced that feeling of things clicking from just learning to fire the right muscles, rather than strength per se, and I think that's still where I need the most improvement.

The grip concerns are really only fresh in my mind because of my workouts. I tap out on grip on so many things: pullups, farmer's carries, etc. That is, if my grip was stronger, I believe I'd be doing much better on these exercises. Also, I think I'd have more quality reps later in my workouts. The other day we experimented with pullups mid-workout and I was shot on grip for RDLs and everything else. I've been wondering whether or not I'm just imagining that my grip is unusually limiting. I'm starting to think I'm not wrong. The best way to improve is a separate question.

My coach has said that my grip strength has definitely improved since we've started. And I've noticed better sight tracking in my shooting. My main concern is that my 2 year fitness goals are going to look more like 10 years out. But hearing that remark from Craig gives me a little extra faith that it's not just bad genetics insurmountable lifestyle history.

[John Hearne]

That's actually what motivated this Just rewatched it before starting the thread. For those who haven't sat through it, Ron says he likes to see 1-5 reps with a #1 with each hand for an adult male. Based on the poll, it looks like we're validating that.

IIRC, Karl Rehn seemed to think that he needed just over 100# to reach Grand Master. I get that more is better and if you can gain the grip strength without any negatives then it's worth pursuing. I'm not sure you need over 140# (if you can do five reps of 140, you grip strength is probably at least 150) to shoot well. I suspect that 100# is the point of diminishing returns. Up to 100#, every pound you gain is significant. After 100#, I think the benefit per extra pound starts to drop off. I'm not saying it drops off to nothing but it starts to matter less once you cross the 100# threshold.

As mentioned above, it may depend on gun/hand fit as well. If you're running a bigger pistol than optimal then extra grip strength would be really useful. Also grip style seems to matter. The conventionally accepted "thumbs forward" grip appears to be very dependent on grip strength. Per Karl, the old Gunsite crossed thumbs actually gets better results for those with sub-optimal grip strength.

[blues]

One thing that I think is important to bear in mind is that training the grip can lead to, or exacerbate forearm / elbow issues (epicondylitis etc) unless some time is spent working the extensor muscles:



These exercises have helped me tremendously, as well as the occasional use of the BandIT when forearm or elbow support / relief is called for :

[Drang]

While it stops at 200 lb, Amazon has an inexpensive dynamometer to measure grip strength. They were recently on sale for less than $21 so I picked one up... Link: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Dynam...ds=dynamometer....

Currently $25.99, down from $45.99.

Interesting. I have no baseline to go from, but I'm curious to track what "Arthur Itis", as my grandmother used to call it, is doing to my paws...

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have never gone above 175lbs because that's what they happened to have in my old gym. They weren't COC, but some other brand that increased in 25lb increments.

So I put myself down for a 1.5. I think probably at my deadlifting peak I could have done 200lbs...at the time I was DLing a little over 400 so it seems reasonable. But I never had one around to try.

I did develop a bit of tennis elbow which believe can be a side effect of overworking, or poorly working, your grip. So I've dovetailed that injury with my general preference for laziness and heavy drinking and I'm in a resting phase now.

[Talionis]

I see super amounts of grip strength as a crutch to fix this issue. If you can increase the pressure of the "vise" holding the gun, you can minimize deflection of the gun caused by actuation of the trigger. Is this an effective solution - yes as it fixes the problem but, maybe not having the problem in the first place might be a better solution.

My personal opinion is that we've become so fixated on capacity that we neglect and sacrifice shooting well. I would offer that a lot of folks are shooting guns that are too large for their hand. They would shoot better, and need less ammo, if they actually had a gun that fit their hand.

I offer this question as a counterpoint: Would you rather have the hand strength combined with correct technique that would allow you to shoot lights out with even poorly fit handguns, or would you prefer to base your shooting technique on guns that are perfectly fit to your hand? Personally, I enjoy being able to pick up everything from J-frames through 1911's and Glocks up to 2011's and be able to work the trigger rapidly on each for accurate hits using the "crutch" of a vice-like grip.

For reference, before I stopped working with them, I could just barely close #2's with both hands.

[Trajan]

I was using CoCs, but they started to hurt my hand. Then I damaged a tendon in my right index finger (forcing me to be left handed) from BJJ, and stopped using them. I noticed that even when shooting fast, I'm not really gripping the gun anywhere close to even a trainer. Most of my recoil control comes from my left hand held up high in a Vogel-ish fashion.

I train grip strength now solely from picking up heavy weights.

[John Hearne]

Would you rather have the hand strength combined with correct technique that would allow you to shoot lights out with even poorly fit handguns, or would you prefer to base your shooting technique on guns that are perfectly fit to your hand? Personally, I enjoy being able to pick up everything from J-frames through 1911's and Glocks up to 2011's and be able to work the trigger rapidly on each for accurate hits using the "crutch" of a vice-like grip.

I'm not calling for the abandonment of grip strength development. For a new male wishing to shoot well as quickly as possible, I would recommend getting to 100# of grip strength as soon as you can while retaining the ability to contract the trigger finger without tightening up the other fingers of the hand. I'd suggest that once you reach 100#, worry less about the rate of increase and approach additional gains with a strong eye towards avoiding injury. For women, I'd try to get to 80# ASAP and continue the development of more strength a bit more aggressively. The gun doesn't care who's shooting it, it cares (in part) about how strong the hands holding it are.

If you are stuck with a mandated gun then you're going to have to do whatever it takes to shoot well. If that means 180#, you best be getting strong. It also means that if you have choice in your firearm selection, you need to bias your selection towards fit.

[TCinVA]

I have never gone above 175lbs because that's what they happened to have in my old gym. They weren't COC, but some other brand that increased in 25lb increments.

So I put myself down for a 1.5. I think probably at my deadlifting peak I could have done 200lbs...at the time I was DLing a little over 400 so it seems reasonable. But I never had one around to try.

I did develop a bit of tennis elbow which believe can be a side effect of overworking, or poorly working, your grip. So I've dovetailed that injury with my general preference for laziness and heavy drinking and I'm in a resting phase now.

I have had issues with tendintis/tennis elbow/etc, too. I started using the Power Ball and that cleared up quite quickly.

https://powerballs.com/

I don't use it as much as I should, but it seemed to really help clear up my forearm issues.