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Thread: Numbers of screw ups at matches, that we fret about?

  1. #1
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    Numbers of screw ups at matches, that we fret about?

    There's on going discussion about in here and in the gun world about various screw ups on the draw. BBI and Craig are discussing real world incidents. I wonder if matches might give some indication of the likelihood of such events. True, they are not real world DA STREETZ, but could be a hint.

    Thinking about:

    1. Not getting the gun into the fight because of the safety. I've seen folks forget the safety a few times, esp. if the gun starts in a nonstandard position but even a few with a standard draw. A couple of weeks OK, a guy with a new Platypus kept flipping on the safety.

    2. AWIB wiener removal - versus other NDs on the draw. Have we seen them in matches? In TX, we had at least 4 in the leg on the draw - some Serpas, IIRC. I had a dude put a 45 ACP round from a 1911 a foot away from my toes when he made ready and holstered. I was score keeper. So do we have numbers on AIWB mishaps per shooter?

    The stress of a fight might make one more prone to screwing the safety or removing the wiener, as you fumble more under such.

    Just a though before I go to the market in Condition Orange (that means we need some OJ - LOL).
    Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age

  2. #2
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    Idaho
    1. Fighting the safety IMO is something that falls under basic gun handling skills and ought to be worked out in practice. Granted, for some people shooting matches is the extent of their practice. But I feel like a person should familiarize themself sufficiently with a new gun before taking it to a match or carry. I will say that I am one of those people who will test out a new-to-me carry gun at a few matches before I feel comfortable enough carrying it since the stress of the timer often brings calls out anything that is deficient with the new gun or my technique. But there’s probably 20+ hours of dryfire that precedes those matches.

    2. I’ve personally witnessed two ADs at matches that either resulted in a very close call or blood being spilt. First was when the competitor went to holster their gun after the Make Ready and the gun went off. Near as we can tell, something like his shirt got hung up on the trigger when he shoved his gun (striker fired) into the holster which caused the gun to go off, leaving a burn mark on his butt cheek and a hole in his pants but no other injury. The second was an Open shooter who fumbled the gun on the draw and torched one off. The round grazed the upper thigh and broke skin on the calf and narrowly missed her foot by millimeters. I will add that it was an Open gun with pinned grip safety and probably had a sub 2 lb SAO trigger. The holster in question also pointed the muzzle at her lower leg which is something that always makes me cringe.

    I don’t see many people using appendix holsters at USPSA matches, tho there are a few here and there, and probably more at IDPA matches. I wear my carry gun AIWB but I am very deliberate when I holster, which seems to be a common theme among the people I know who junk carry as opposed to people with a dropped/offset comp holster who slam their gun into the holster without looking. I make damn sure my finger is out of the trigger, shirt is clear of the holster and I push my pelvis forward so the holster is angled forward and away from my frank and beans. I also have a size able wedge of foam on the back of my holster which further angles the holster outward and not straight down.

    At most of the matches I go to the average gun handling skills are pretty decent compared to what you see at the range. I’m one of the people who usually does the new shooter brief at our matches and often I’ll invite them to squad with me (unless they came with a buddy). I watch the newbies pretty closely for the first stage or so, but I have to say most of the newbies I run into at USPSA matches very few of them have caused me any concerns, which is gratifying.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter gringop's Avatar
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    Many times over 15 years of shooting matches.

    Version 1:
    "Load and make ready"
    Shooter inserts mag but does not fully seat it. Racks the slide but does not chamber check.
    "Shooter ready...Standby" Beep!
    Shooter draws and clicks on an empty chamber then stares at the non-functioning gun.

    Version 2:
    Shooter reloads with the slide forward (Tac load) but does not fully seat the mag. Fires the next shot, the mag drops out of the gun and shooter stares at the non-functioning gun in hand and the mag on the ground.


    My personal best:
    1st stage in the morning, a non-movement speed stage, almost like a Steel Challenge stage. I'm amped up for some fast and fancy shooting. Buzzer goes off, I draw and shoot a bullet into the ground about 4' in front of me and start working through the targets with my splits and transitions progressively slowing down as I realize what I had done. Unload and show clear, done shooting for the day. I contemplated my sins as I taped and reset for the rest of the match.

    Gringop (dirt shooter)
    Play that song about the Irish chiropodist. Irish chiropodist? "My Fate Is In Your Hands."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gringop View Post
    Many times over 15 years of shooting matches.

    Version 1:
    "Load and make ready"
    Shooter inserts mag but does not fully seat it. Racks the slide but does not chamber check.
    "Shooter ready...Standby" Beep!
    Shooter draws and clicks on an empty chamber then stares at the non-functioning gun.

    Gringop (dirt shooter)
    USPSA Rule 8.1 addresses this. Per the rulebook the RO is to say nothing. It’s a learning moment for the shooter.

  5. #5
    Member NETim's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
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    Nebraska
    Whenever I RO or score, I ensure I'm well off to the side of the shooter during holstering activities. At my outlaw matches, newbie unknown shooters start from low ready. I've never really kept track but it seems to me that most folks earn a DQ via the 180 rule.
    In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

  6. #6
    While USPSA is not tactical gun fight training, it is high level gun manipulation training. I see a strong correlation between shooter ability and gun handling, meaning more capable shooters have better gun handling skills. They also have the ability to more efficiently diagnose and fix problems.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by gringop View Post
    Many times over 15 years of shooting matches.

    Version 1:
    "Load and make ready"
    Shooter inserts mag but does not fully seat it. Racks the slide but does not chamber check.
    "Shooter ready...Standby" Beep!
    Shooter draws and clicks on an empty chamber then stares at the non-functioning gun.

    Gringop (dirt shooter)
    We don’t have formal USPSA or IDPA matches. If I’m RSO, I might say “Shooter ready? Are you really, really ready?”
    If there’s a click, not a bang, I’ll stop and let the shooter have a redo.

  8. #8
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    While I generally really love competition as a stress test of subconscious skills and an accessible form of stress inoculation, I think all the variables of in fight access, total surprise or awkward positions, risk of injuries or holding something etc etc etc, as well as flight or fight response mean drawing for real is another order of magnitude more prone to issues. Just look at all the crazy grip issues you see over and over on cop body cams, and frequency of malfunctions in body cam videos.

    It's way higher than any range work.

    That said, if you can nail your draw under competition stress every single time, that's certainly better than someone who can't or hasn't tried.

  9. #9
    Something my wife and I have learned, is that you should not have any conscious thought about technical shooting in your conscious mind when you are shooting a stage at a match. Thinking about technical shooting, keeps your mind from focusing on the things you need to do to get your best result. I suspect it is the same for defensive shooting, and I know it is hunting -- you want to be focused on solving the problem and not manipulating your equipment. That means you will have needed to have develop those skills to a subconscious level with prior practice.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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