Shooting low and left (was: Not Sure This Is The Right Place For This Question)

[Cypher]

I haven't forgot this thread, I just haven't been able to hit the range yet

[dbateman]

I use a laser light trainer and their training gun

Stop doing that.

[spinmove_]

This is coming from someone who is currently working on the same issue...and it's probably going to seem opposite of what some others have said. But this is my experience/and what seems to be working for me.

I found that I want to squeeze with my strong hand little finger. I read somewhere that the ring and pinky fingers rotate the outer part of the hand downward and inward instead of just moving the fingers straight back like the forefinger and middle finger do. (Extend your hand palm down and then bring each finger downward/back to the wrist one at a time and watch what happens to your hand.) I watched myself closely during live fire alternating an SD9VE that I had confidence shooting and an M&P 9 Fullsize that I was having major issues with... the M&P 9 dipped at the point of trigger break. That caused me to try an interlocking grip like I similar to what I use with my golf grip - pinky between the offhand ring and pinky finger. That somewhat cured the low left results.

Then I also read somewhere that squeezing with either or both thumb was pointless.

So, at this point, I've ditched the interlocking grip and am concentrating on not squeezing at all with my strong hand pinky finger. I'm also not worried about my thumb positioning anymore, focusing on contact with the heel/palm pads on both hands and the pistol grip.

Strictly food for thought.

YMMV...

You should be concentrating actively on your sight package and concentrating inactively on your trigger press. Everything else should fade to the background, including idiosyncrasies with your grip.

Your grip torquing and twisting is stemming from mental anticipation and/or nervousness. Stop paying attention to your grip and just grip it hard and firm. Trigger finger hand squeezes front to back, support hand squeezes side to side. Solid grip, clean sight package, clean trigger press, holes where you want them. Weak grip with your firing hand will lead to sloppy trigger presses and then you'll have a completely new issue.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[lwt16]

A couple of easy changes I did to get my groups center and not left with striker fired pistols:

1. Grip the weapon on the front strap and back strap more than the sides of the grip
2. Straightened my support hand elbow instead of letting it dip
3. Put the correct combination of adjustable backstraps/Talon grips to get my trigger finger placement just right.


For me and my large hands, I found that if I shot a Gen 4 G17 without any backstrap, the groups were very left......like way left......but nice and tight. The medium backstrap brought them in towards center but still left, and then slapping the Talons on there was just right. My duty M&P requires that as well as gripping the pistol on the front and rear of the grip and less on the sides in addition to the Talons and med backstrap.

When it comes to my smaller Glocks (43/42) I REALLY have to concentrate to keep from pushing shots left. Those thin grips allow me to put way too much trigger finger pressure on the frame and thus, shots go left.

Hope this helps.

[Doc_Glock]

Ok, first, I am about the last person to suggest things here, but I am both new to guns and I used to have a M&P Full Size 9, so I feel for ya. But take this all with a few pounds of salt, coming from a pretty much noobie.

Before commenting, I would suggest you get someone else to shoot your pistol, just to make sure there isn't something wierd going on with the gun. If you can't do that, you might try shooting it off a rest. You just want to make sure it's sighted in.

I started a training journal, basically entitled what you are saying you have, i.e. why do I shoot low and left (but I'm a lefty, so I shot low and right)

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....aining-journal

I post this because you might get some info out of skimming through it.


Ok here is the synopsis of what I found useful, in no particular order:

Regular effective dry practice. Note, this does not mean squeezing off clicks randomly at the TV. It means regular (daily), dedicated (in a safe direction), effective (EXACTLY as you would grip when firing) dry practice. 40 dry press wall drills should leave you smoked. If your shoulders and back aren't very tired after 40 dry presses, you are not getting as much as you can out of your dry practice.

Coin on the Slide Early on, I used the nickel / penny / dime balanced on the slide trick. I don't find this useful anymore, but you might. Balance a coin on the slide near the front sight. Press the trigger back and make sure it doesn't fall off. Repeat.

Grip hard No, harder than that. No, still harder. You want to leave "M&P" imprints on your palms. Hint: regular dry practice will help you achieve a hard grip.

Grip properly High up with the strong hand, 45 degree finger down on the support hand, wrap support hand under, thumbs forward and LIGHT on the frame.

Snap Caps Snap caps during range time can be a help. Insert 5 or so snap caps randomly in a few magazines. Slowly shoot. Note reaction when you hear a click rather than a bang.

Press the trigger straight back without disturbing the front sights. Ah, you say, that's easy. Yes, but this pretty much the key to shooting groups POI = POA. Meaning: you need to be able to see the front sight. If you wear bifocals, obtain a pair of +1 diopter full lens safety glasses. Or wear a AAA Petzl headlamp to illuminate the front sight. Both of these allow you to actually you know, see, the front sight so you can tell if you are disturbing it.

As to the trigger, on the press, DON'T STOP or STAGE the trigger. Press it straight back. It is not so much how fast you press, but that you press it in one go. Some very highly skilled people (most of the guys here) can press straight back quickly, and be accurate. Me, not so much. But I can definitely press straight back fast enough to get decent groups.

Note: you may have to fiddle around with your backstraps to see what works best. Try the S M and L backstraps and make sure that the one on the pistol is the one that minimizes sight movement.

Same for amount of trigger finger. You want wherever you get the least movement. It might be the crease, it might be the distal phalange, or somewhere in between. Again, least movement.

So you can see why you need to see the front sight, really really see it. You will be looking at it a lot in these exercises, hence the +1 reading glasses, and the AAA headlamp.)

Establish a metric, and shoot it live fire. One common metric is 10 rounds, slow fire, scored out of 100 on a NRA B-8 target. (Hint: NRA B-8 pdf files are available here for downloading and printing.) Shoot this as a baseline, then every time you go to the range. It does not matter what you pick, so much as what you pick you are comfortable with, and that you shoot it consistently as a metric.

Start a training journal You might think, nah, no one will ever read it. Actually, I have some of the best shooters in the country comment and read my posts, and any benefit I've gotten out of my practice has been magnified by this helpful advice.

Again, hope this helps. I have been where you are. Pistol-Forum has helped me immensely in getting to know what is "good" in terms of shooting, and is why I paid folding money to be a site supporter.

Good luck!

Rich

Excellent post. Now to start a journal...

[ken grant]

Try this grip . Worked for me and several others.

http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/que...-grip.1340458/

[randyflycaster]

I will try that grip. I'm still struggling with my Glock 19. I'm left handed so I'm still pulling most of my shots low and to the right. I've tried everything. I've read books. I've read countless threads. Nothing seems to work. Don't know if this is applicable: I just bought a Ruger 22/45. I shot it today for the first time and all my shots were right on.

Thanks,
Randy

[Cypher]

Stop doing that.

Why?

[Cypher]

As was previously mentioned, remote diagnosis is a crapshoot. However what you're stating is something I've so clearly witnessed innumerable times that I'm reasonably confident I can help you.

In short, you probably need to:

• build your grip higher on the gun
• grab the gun harder
• accelerate your trigger press

Shitcan thoughts of a surprise break.

I'm not saying that there isn't nuance to be discussed there, but right now I know it's not helping so just get rid of it.

Before I change anything else I'm going to try these suggestions

[Rex G]

I recently found that a relatively new Gen4 Glock G17 slide has a misaligned front sight hole. Groups fired with this G17 slide, on my G34 frame, with both left and right hands, were to the left, while the groups fired with this same pistol's original G34 slide were properly centered. User error should be expected to be the same with both slides on this same pistol. This was with Wilson Combat Vickers Battlesights. With the front Battlesight removed, the thread locking compound cleared away, and a fresh front sight inserted, I found that neither the new sight, nor the sight with which I had fired the errant groups, could be aligned correctly along the axis of the bore. Filing the stub, that extends into the mounting hole, will be necessary.

I then looked at my other Glocks, and it seems my new Gen4 G26 is the same way, but the G26 still has its original sights, and the smaller OEM sight apparently causes less of a shift in alignment of the sights. I had been unimpressed with my groups, but I had attributed that to not being able to shoot all that well with the OEM plastic sights, anyway. The G26 was already up for a change in sights, and now I know I will probably have to file the replacement front sight to correct the alignment.

While it is true that low-left bullet impact is normally user error, a misaligned front sight could be a contributing factor, so I reckoned I should mention it here.