It's not meant for you, it's there preemptively for people who will come by and argue.
This is PF, after all.
[emoji4]
It's not meant for you, it's there preemptively for people who will come by and argue.
This is PF, after all.
[emoji4]
Thanks very much for your assistance to everyone
I think he's saying that you can dial in the fine points later...for now you have bigger fish to fry.Originally Posted by Cypher
(As in working from the macro, larger issues, to the micro, which will put a nice exclamation point on everything when you are arriving at the desired destination.)
Forgive me if I misinterpreted Jay's intention.
There's nothing civil about this war.
The only thing I would add to this is to make sure you're NOT pressing against the frame of the gun with your trigger finger in any way, shape, or form. If you are doing that, despite how hard you grip the pistol, your shots will continue to go where they're currently going and possibly get worse.
Definitely agree, that can be an issue and it should be accounted for.
I usually save it for later after trying to first purge the anticipation caused by "waiting for the surprise"!
OK I will try this and come back
Cypher - I will have some thoughts later on this as a new shooter with a consistent low and away grouping with a S&W M&P.
Jay has you on the right track.
Ok, first, I am about the last person to suggest things here, but I am both new to guns and I used to have a M&P Full Size 9, so I feel for ya. But take this all with a few pounds of salt, coming from a pretty much noobie.
Before commenting, I would suggest you get someone else to shoot your pistol, just to make sure there isn't something wierd going on with the gun. If you can't do that, you might try shooting it off a rest. You just want to make sure it's sighted in.
I started a training journal, basically entitled what you are saying you have, i.e. why do I shoot low and left (but I'm a lefty, so I shot low and right)
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....aining-journal
I post this because you might get some info out of skimming through it.
Ok here is the synopsis of what I found useful, in no particular order:
Regular effective dry practice. Note, this does not mean squeezing off clicks randomly at the TV. It means regular (daily), dedicated (in a safe direction), effective (EXACTLY as you would grip when firing) dry practice. 40 dry press wall drills should leave you smoked. If your shoulders and back aren't very tired after 40 dry presses, you are not getting as much as you can out of your dry practice.
Coin on the Slide Early on, I used the nickel / penny / dime balanced on the slide trick. I don't find this useful anymore, but you might. Balance a coin on the slide near the front sight. Press the trigger back and make sure it doesn't fall off. Repeat.
Grip hard No, harder than that. No, still harder. You want to leave "M&P" imprints on your palms. Hint: regular dry practice will help you achieve a hard grip.
Grip properly High up with the strong hand, 45 degree finger down on the support hand, wrap support hand under, thumbs forward and LIGHT on the frame.
Snap Caps Snap caps during range time can be a help. Insert 5 or so snap caps randomly in a few magazines. Slowly shoot. Note reaction when you hear a click rather than a bang.
Press the trigger straight back without disturbing the front sights. Ah, you say, that's easy. Yes, but this pretty much the key to shooting groups POI = POA. Meaning: you need to be able to see the front sight. If you wear bifocals, obtain a pair of +1 diopter full lens safety glasses. Or wear a AAA Petzl headlamp to illuminate the front sight. Both of these allow you to actually you know, see, the front sight so you can tell if you are disturbing it.
As to the trigger, on the press, DON'T STOP or STAGE the trigger. Press it straight back. It is not so much how fast you press, but that you press it in one go. Some very highly skilled people (most of the guys here) can press straight back quickly, and be accurate. Me, not so much. But I can definitely press straight back fast enough to get decent groups.
Note: you may have to fiddle around with your backstraps to see what works best. Try the S M and L backstraps and make sure that the one on the pistol is the one that minimizes sight movement.
Same for amount of trigger finger. You want wherever you get the least movement. It might be the crease, it might be the distal phalange, or somewhere in between. Again, least movement.
So you can see why you need to see the front sight, really really see it. You will be looking at it a lot in these exercises, hence the +1 reading glasses, and the AAA headlamp.)
Establish a metric, and shoot it live fire. One common metric is 10 rounds, slow fire, scored out of 100 on a NRA B-8 target. (Hint: NRA B-8 pdf files are available here for downloading and printing.) Shoot this as a baseline, then every time you go to the range. It does not matter what you pick, so much as what you pick you are comfortable with, and that you shoot it consistently as a metric.
Start a training journal You might think, nah, no one will ever read it. Actually, I have some of the best shooters in the country comment and read my posts, and any benefit I've gotten out of my practice has been magnified by this helpful advice.
Again, hope this helps. I have been where you are. Pistol-Forum has helped me immensely in getting to know what is "good" in terms of shooting, and is why I paid folding money to be a site supporter.
Good luck!
Rich
Last edited by RJ; 11-17-2016 at 04:17 PM. Reason: werds r hard
My apologiesI changed the thread title. I encourage everyone to use titles at least somewhat relevant to the topic being discussed.
This is coming from someone who is currently working on the same issue...and it's probably going to seem opposite of what some others have said. But this is my experience/and what seems to be working for me.
I found that I want to squeeze with my strong hand little finger. I read somewhere that the ring and pinky fingers rotate the outer part of the hand downward and inward instead of just moving the fingers straight back like the forefinger and middle finger do. (Extend your hand palm down and then bring each finger downward/back to the wrist one at a time and watch what happens to your hand.) I watched myself closely during live fire alternating an SD9VE that I had confidence shooting and an M&P 9 Fullsize that I was having major issues with... the M&P 9 dipped at the point of trigger break. That caused me to try an interlocking grip like I similar to what I use with my golf grip - pinky between the offhand ring and pinky finger. That somewhat cured the low left results.
Then I also read somewhere that squeezing with either or both thumb was pointless.
So, at this point, I've ditched the interlocking grip and am concentrating on not squeezing at all with my strong hand pinky finger. I'm also not worried about my thumb positioning anymore, focusing on contact with the heel/palm pads on both hands and the pistol grip.
Strictly food for thought.
YMMV...
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