New IDPA Rules

[That Guy]

What about those who make an honest mistake? in your example above-what if they shoot free hand because they forget? I've seen that quite a bit.

Exactly. Instead of hitting them with a FTDR, we will soon have a lesser penalty that is still big enough not to give competitive advantage to those forgetful people.

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But it they do take a long time. Setting up and staging three guns. Then making them safe. Takes a lot of time. A lot more than setting up one.

But you don't have to use three different guns in the same stage, or even the same match. You can have a whole match where you just shoot with shotguns. Or like the last DMG match I went to - we had three handgun stages side by side (this was one really big bay in a military base combat range), every one shoots those, then stages are slightly modified and everyone shoots those with their carbines. Fast and fun.

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[taadski]

I think PCC is a great addition to both USPSA and IDPA. It allows folks with the motivation to put one together the opportunity to get some trigger time with a carbine in a match that's already established. There really isn't any shoehorning necessary; IME, it's pretty seamless. I guess I don't get the concern or see the downside.

[Zincwarrior]

Exactly. Instead of hitting them with a FTDR, we will soon have a lesser penalty that is still big enough not to give competitive advantage to those forgetful people.

Thats whats the normal penalty works well for.
Hitting them with an extreme penalty looks like an excellent way of insuring they never come back. Its not "flagrant" its a normal goof like every other penalty.

[MGW]

Post #353, don't see how you missed it. (grin)
It is said to be by the Florida AC from a meeting with the rules committee.

Seems there may not have been 100% unalloyed admiration of PCC, it is going into a Specialty Division ex NFC lumped with BUG, CO, lights and lasers, etc. Kind of a purgatory for the unconventional.

Well, I read really slow. This thread is to fast paced for me

[Jim Watson]

Maybe me too.
We have a draft and we have a memo allegedly reporting on what the BoD took from the 12/3 comments.
Best to wait and see. As I said, people jumping the gun on the 2015 revisions greatly aggravated the management.

[BigT]

Exactly. Instead of hitting them with a FTDR, we will soon have a lesser penalty that is still big enough not to give competitive advantage to those forgetful people.



But you don't have to use three different guns in the same stage, or even the same match. You can have a whole match where you just shoot with shotguns. Or like the last DMG match I went to - we had three handgun stages side by side (this was one really big bay in a military base combat range), every one shoots those, then stages are slightly modified and everyone shoots those with their carbines. Fast and fun.

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Not really multi gun then if you're shooting the stages with only one gun.

Here the guys try shoot at least two of the guns in a multigun stages rightly or wrongly.


Personally I prefer the the single gun format to the multi gun one. But I'm in the minority in a lot of places on that. Probably because I'm an IPSC gheymer.

[That Guy]

Thats whats the normal penalty works well for.

But it doesn't. Three seconds is kind of a little penalty if you shoot a whole string of fire freestyle instead of one handed.

Not really multi gun then if you're shooting the stages with only one gun.

I guess we have a very different idea of what multi-gun means, then.

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[Zincwarrior]

But it doesn't. Three seconds is kind of a little penalty if you shoot a whole string of fire freestyle instead of one handed.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that.
'Flagrant' has a definition including intentional or with reckless disregard. If you're going to pull that level of penalty on someone with that description, its serious (meaning its stupid and liable to incur a nice verbal confrontation).

[Peally]

It's needed because they added fault lines in. IDPA bylaws require a very specific amount of arbitrary bullshit to every rule that's solid.



What does the RO feel like giving out today? Was this procedure related, flagrantly procedure related, flagrantly gaming it, or failing to do right (AKA gaming it)?

For fuck's sake... if they made an oopsie on some random ass target engagement order give them the procedural (per shot), if they're trying to cheat give them an FTDR. If they're doing something naughty DQ and eject them. This is not rocket science, you don't need varying levels of penalty to be judged by some random ass RO that was unlucky enough to grab the timer.

If they're finding big holes in stages, make better stages, not more redundant rules. You really have to try to not see how little foresight is put into some of these things sometimes.

/rant

[That Guy]

'Flagrant' has a definition including intentional or with reckless disregard.

So your issue is with the name of the penalty? Okay, I have to admit it sounded a little weird to me when I first read it, and after that I haven't given it much thought. English isn't my first language, so I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter, but it does sound like you have a point.

if they made an oopsie on some random ass target engagement order give them the procedural (per shot)

That'd work, if IDPA gave up their policy of only one penalty for one mistake. Of course, with the current rule book they kind of did, but only with some things - the end result is very confusing. But let's say a 12 shot string, specified one hand only and the shooter shoots freestyle: 3 second penalty per shot, that's 36 seconds in procedulars... Ouch.

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