New IDPA Rules

[cclaxton]

I've had to reframe how I think about IDPA so as not to go crazy thinking about the higher levels of the sport.
IDPA is basically a gateway drug to get new shooters who suck hooked on the idea of competition and improving themselves. We use it as a feeder club to encourage people to get better at everything involved in using a gun. Those who legit want to improve will practice and then eventually shoot USPSA so they can seriously improve. Those who get stuck in the mindset that IDPA is actually training, stay there and never improve much beyond where they are. I've seen this pattern play out numerous times over the last couple of years and it works for me.
tl;dr
Use IDPA to trick people into practicing and improving. Those that want to get good will and those that don't, won't.

I have seen some people, IDPA Masters, who don't shoot USPSA at all. I see others that go on to USPSA and do both.
But there is no doubt about people improving while shooting IDPA in every aspect of gun handling. A lot of people....shocker....are not interested in buying a $2000 STI because that's what most guys have, and becoming a USPSA A Class or a GM. MOST PEOPLE who shoot IDPA want to get to a level where they are confident in their own pistol shooting in a variety of situations and don't really suck...to use your negative term. They can do that in IDPA...and they don't need to go beyond that. I will still put any experienced IDPA shooter up against a common criminal shooter any day. That is not to say there aren't people who don't continue to improve...there are. That happens for a variety of reasons, but the most common one is they simply don't have time to commit the number of hours needed to dry fire practice, nor the discipline to work on their speed and their grip and their aim. Other reasons are old age, injuries, and just not motivated enough.
If you want to work on becoming a GM or A class, more power to you...seriously, I hope you make it. But it is a mistake to think that everyone else needs to be there in order to defend themselves.
Cody

[John Hearne]

I hate to muddle the thread with facts but:

First, "proper" use of cover is context dependent. Paul Howe has a very different take on the use of cover that would not meet IDPA requirements. Is Paul Howe an idiot giving advice that will "get ya kilt on the streetz?" No, Paul Howe teaches a more "offensive" use of cover and is more concerned with hitting the bad guy than getting every inch of you behind cover that he can.

Second, I've been carrying a patrol rifle since 1998. I have been shooting PCC in local IDPA and local USPSA matches since 2006. I don't know how many stages, I've shot but I think it's enough to form some opinions. I have never thought a stage needed to be "tweaked" to make my time with the PCC valuable. If it says support hand only, I shoot it off my left should with just my support hand controlling it. Off-side cover shots, switch shoulders. Part of the value of shooting the PCC is that you are working in a pistol fight environment.

I carry my PCC with the upper and lower separated in a 26" tool box and put it together on the first stage. I then sling it with chamber flag to move it around the range. This has worked so far just fine.

[Mr_White]

Glad you are okay. Would you have rather not been shot?
Cody

BigT obviously can and will speak for himself.

But that seems like a silly question. Who wouldn't rather not get shot?

I think this is a better question, though it probably has just as obvious an answer as your question: What ENDED the gunfight?

Tactics are great. They can create a temporary window of opportunity where it did not already exist, to effectively bring marksmanship skill to bear on the adversary and then more permanently stop the threat. Sometimes that's the only way to facilitate ending the problem because skill alone cannot meet the requirements of the current window of opportunity due to human dynamics or the physical circumstances involved. Other times skill can end the fight sooner, if they were of a sufficient level to be effective within the existing window of opportunity.

[Mr_White]

First, "proper" use of cover is context dependent. Paul Howe has a very different take on the use of cover that would not meet IDPA requirements. Is Paul Howe an idiot giving advice that will "get ya kilt on the streetz?" No, Paul Howe teaches a more "offensive" use of cover and is more concerned with hitting the bad guy than getting every inch of you behind cover that he can.

Right on, that sounds great. The overly defensive use of cover that is commonly taught (at least according to my experience in training) is ok and definitely does have a place, but it is Day One stuff and only the tip of the iceberg that emerges once human dynamics and an opposing will are included.

[jlw]

One of the things that turned me off on IDPA was people whose only notion of tactics comes from IDPA thinking they can speak with authority on tactics.

Of course, you can also find that guy on the Timmy side who thinks his 2-day course somewhere qualifies him to debate tactics with someone who actually "goes through doors".

Does that guy hang out at USPSA matches, or do they just argue about shooting better?


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[HopetonBrown]

cclaxton, your obsessive compulsion to white knight for IDPA actually makes the argument for IDPA (and yourself) look worse, not better. And for the record I shoot IDPA.

IDPA is not tactical training, and I don't think it prepares you any more for a gunfight than USPSA. It's just a good way to get people involved in action pistol sports with minimal outlay.

PS you don't need a $2k STI to be competitive in USPSA, ask Gabe White (he shoots a G34 for the record, as do plenty of other people). Hope you have a happy thanksgiving.

[Edwin]

I have seen some people, IDPA Masters, who don't shoot USPSA at all. I see others that go on to USPSA and do both.
But there is no doubt about people improving while shooting IDPA in every aspect of gun handling. A lot of people....shocker....are not interested in buying a $2000 STI because that's what most guys have, and becoming a USPSA A Class or a GM. MOST PEOPLE who shoot IDPA want to get to a level where they are confident in their own pistol shooting in a variety of situations and don't really suck...to use your negative term. They can do that in IDPA...and they don't need to go beyond that. I will still put any experienced IDPA shooter up against a common criminal shooter any day. That is not to say there aren't people who don't continue to improve...there are. That happens for a variety of reasons, but the most common one is they simply don't have time to commit the number of hours needed to dry fire practice, nor the discipline to work on their speed and their grip and their aim. Other reasons are old age, injuries, and just not motivated enough.
If you want to work on becoming a GM or A class, more power to you...seriously, I hope you make it. But it is a mistake to think that everyone else needs to be there in order to defend themselves.
Cody

[Luke]

What happens if you get into a gun fight in a empty parking lot? Guessing the sub 3 minute bill drill gets important lol

[MVS]

What happens if you get into a gun fight in a empty parking lot? Guessing the sub 3 minute bill drill gets important lol

Dang, even I can shoot a sub 3 minute Bill drill.

[Luke]

Dang, even I can shoot a sub 3 minute Bill drill.

Gamer. IDPA has no space for you..


Welcome to uspsa. We don't hide from our cardboard.