Subsonic rounds in hunting rifles

[SLG]

Another option for non-reloaders wanting light loads, the old style chamber adapters. I have one for 30-30 that shoots 32 auto shells, and one for 30-06 for the same. They also make them for 30 carbine in the various 30 cals. The 32 auto is sort of fun to shot, not much noise. They don't feed from the mag, and the empties have to be poked out with a rod. In the Winchester 94, when I eject the adapter, it spins and kicks the 32 auto shell out and I just catch the empty adapter ready to put another 32 in it.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

I looked at those when I got my ball conversion kit. What kind of accuracy are you getting with them?

[Lester Polfus]

I looked at those when I got my ball conversion kit. What kind of accuracy are you getting with them?

I have one and it sprayed bullets all over a piece of typing paper at 25 yards.

The caveat is I only tried one box of Fiocchi ammo. I sometimes think I should try some different ammo, but it hasn't worked its way up the priority list.

[Malamute]

Mine has worked OK. I don't recall actual groups on paper, but it seemed easy to hit small rocks and sticks, knots on logs out to 20 yards or so. I'll dig it out and see.

I used to keep my eyes open for 32 auto ammo at guns shows. If you can find partial boxes, it can often be had pretty cheap. I think I have some Rem green and yellow box stuff, I can shoot a few and see what it does.

[dbateman]

I have a little cartridge "kit" that I have used to launch round balls out of my 308's. It uses a modified case that takes commercial construction type blanks. Neat little setup, that appealed to me when I wasn't a reloader. Now that I reload, I want to revisit the idea. I assumed a heavier bullet would be needed, but it sounds like most of you use standard weight bullets for the caliber, and just load with pistol ammo.

So, if a light load of rifle powder is dangerous because too much volume, is a light load of pistol safe but just needs a little help to reliably ignite so it doesn't float all over the case? I have plenty of unique, and I also have plenty of heavy bullets in .308, starting with 175 and working up to 230. I would not waste the 230's on this application, and would prefer not to use the 208's though I can with no issue. I have so many more 175's that those would be my first choice. Sounds like dbateman is doing that but maybe in 300 and not 308?

Is there a good recipe for 175's and Unique for 308? If not, then is there a better powder for those bullets?

I'm loading 308 and 300blk. Although lately I haven't seen much need for the 300.
At least for what I am doing.

Loading small volumes of fast burning pistol powder is just as bad if not worse than small charges of slow burning rifle type powder.
You want to keep your load density up, for a few reasons one being you tend to get high ES/SD numbers with low density loads, which might not be an issue for what you're doing.
The other issue as one or two other people have mentioned in this thread is potential damage to you or your gun. Which may results in anything from chamber ringing to catastrophic failure of your gun.
The damage happens in the chamber, it's called wave pressure. Have a google for Paul Vieille and wave pressure.
I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure you know what you're getting into.

In 308 I'm a bit limited by my twist which is part of the reason I want to go to an 8 twist.
I think I'm loading 10.5gr of Trail Boss behind a 175 otm. You work up subs a little different, you usually start at a safe known load and work down until you get sub sonic velocities. If you're going to try Trail Boss start around 11gr but don't compress the load.

You might hear of people drilling flashholes, oiling barrels ect, I don't do any of that. I do use magnum primers for my subs,but I don't really know if you need to or not, I've not played around with them.

When you're working up your subs leave your can off until you prove the load.

[OlongJohnson]

People downloading .223 for use on small game or pests should look into bullets specifically labeled for .22 Hornet, as they are designed to expand effectively at the slower velocities of the smaller cartridge.

[SLG]

I'm loading 308 and 300blk. Although lately I haven't seen much need for the 300.
At least for what I am doing.

Loading small volumes of fast burning pistol powder is just as bad if not worse than small charges of slow burning rifle type powder.
You want to keep your load density up, for a few reasons one being you tend to get high ES/SD numbers with low density loads, which might not be an issue for what you're doing.
The other issue as one or two other people have mentioned in this thread is potential damage to you or your gun. Which may results in anything from chamber ringing to catastrophic failure of your gun.
The damage happens in the chamber, it's called wave pressure. Have a google for Paul Vieille and wave pressure.
I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure you know what you're getting into.

In 308 I'm a bit limited by my twist which is part of the reason I want to go to an 8 twist.
I think I'm loading 10.5gr of Trail Boss behind a 175 otm. You work up subs a little different, you usually start at a safe known load and work down until you get sub sonic velocities. If you're going to try Trail Boss start around 11gr but don't compress the load.

You might hear of people drilling flashholes, oiling barrels ect, I don't do any of that. I do use magnum primers for my subs,but I don't really know if you need to or not, I've not played around with them.

When you're working up your subs leave your can off until you prove the load.

Thanks for the info. So...the 6 million dollar question. Once you safely work down to 10.5g of Trail Boss, is there any danger at all (that is, no more so than any other round), or is there still a chance of something bad happening with the pistol powder?

[Malamute]

I haven't heard much serious difficulties with pistol powder in rifles, as was mentioned above. Its been pretty much standard fare for loading cast bullets for ages. Theres been load work done with jacketed bullets, using known powders and loads will take the unknown factor out of it.

I'm curious why or where the info about small charges of pistol powder being worse than reduced rifle powders being bad has come from? Its been a known, but not reproducible phenomenon to have odd pressure issues with reduced slow burning rifle powders for light loads, but quite a lot of load work has been done with pistol powders. Many cast bullet manuals will have all or nearly all pistol powders as loads. What level one wants to make the cutoff of "enough" or "not enough" powder is not clear to me, but Id like to learn more if info is available. Some powders are much better than others.

[dbateman]

Thanks for the info. So...the 6 million dollar question. Once you safely work down to 10.5g of Trail Boss, is there any danger at all (that is, no more so than any other round), or is there still a chance of something bad happening with the pistol powder?

Trail Boss is not a golden bullet but it is one the best powders I've found for subsonic 308 class cartridges.
For 308 it's safest and easiest route that I've found.

[dbateman]

I haven't heard much serious difficulties with pistol powder in rifles, as was mentioned above. Its been pretty much standard fare for loading cast bullets for ages. Theres been load work done with jacketed bullets, using known powders and loads will take the unknown factor out of it.

I'm curious why or where the info about small charges of pistol powder being worse than reduced rifle powders being bad has come from? Its been a known, but not reproducible phenomenon to have odd pressure issues with reduced slow burning rifle powders for light loads, but quite a lot of load work has been done with pistol powders. Many cast bullet manuals will have all or nearly all pistol powders as loads. What level one wants to make the cutoff of "enough" or "not enough" powder is not clear to me, but Id like to learn more if info is available. Some powders are much better than others.

My comment about pistol powder vs rifle powder has more to do with burn rate and load density than straight pistol vs rifle. Where I learnt about burning rates, load densities ect is loading for nitro rounds.
If what you're doing works for you and is safe, keep up er.


This statement here is what I based my opinion on burning rates and load density on.

[OlongJohnson]

Thanks for the info. So...the 6 million dollar question. Once you safely work down to 10.5g of Trail Boss, is there any danger at all (that is, no more so than any other round), or is there still a chance of something bad happening with the pistol powder?

Trail Boss is its own thing, different than any "normal" pistol powder. Coupla links from the manufacturer:

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20R...le%20Loads.pdf