Subsonic rounds in hunting rifles

[SLG]

I know this might belong in the ammo section, but I put rifle in the title so...


I know a couple of you have been playing around with subs in your "main gun." I have some subs, but I really haven't delved deep into them yet.

What do you use them for? Lower recoil? Small game? Suppressor use on big game? Or what?

How do you deal with the different POI? Reticle holds? Dial? Different sight?

What bullet weights and powders do you favor, and in what caliber?

Any pitfalls to avoid in reloading for them? Kapoc?

Should be interesting to hear about, thanks!

[dbateman]

I use subs a bit in 300blk and more recently in 308.

I load 175gr OTM and 190gr smk, because that's what I have and I want to keep things simple.
I have tried a few other projectiles, but for what I'm doing otm and smk work.

I use them for the same thing you use a 308 for when I don't want to alert everything within a mile that I'm there.

How I dealt with different poi is I built different bullet profiles in FFS. You may also need to build a separate profile for your rifle with a suppressors.

I don't use a filler I don't see a need to these days, we have so many powder choices avalible there's no need.
Well that's not quite true, there are still a few instances where I'd use a filler.

I like Trail Boss for 308 subs.

[SecondsCount]

The only gun I have played with subs is in a 16.5" 223 Remington SPS Tactical.

55 FMJ with 3.0 Hodgdon Clays equals 1025 FPS. It is exactly 2 mils low at 50 yards compared to a full speed 55. I tried a subsonic 53 Vmax on a 16 oz water bottle and it just went right through it without any signs of expansion. The Hornady 62 BTHP is another that I am playing with. Not sure if I would shoot anything larger than a small varmint with them.

The barrel on my 6x47 Lapua is threaded and while it stabilizes a 105 grain bullet at 3100 FPS, I need to try building a subsonic load for it.

Unique is a popular powder for subs. Years ago I made some soft shooting 30-06 rounds for my son with 190 grain lead bullets and Unique. It was pretty accurate, around an inch at 50 yards.

[Malamute]

Ive messed with them some as small game, snake and grouse loads in several different rifles. One of the easiest is a .310" or .315" Hornady round ball in the 30-30. I use 3 grs Unique. Ignition consistency is improved with a small tuft of Dacron pillow stuffing over the powder. I hesitate to use the term "filler", as it really isn't filling the space, just holding the powder in position by friction against the primer. The resulting load makes about as much noise as a standard vel 22 LR and kills grouse, bunnies and snakes deader than crud at close range without tearing them up(well, it seems to annihilate a snakes head). I also use a little Lee liquid alox lube on the balls before loading them. The Lyman M expanding die is nice for such things, I use the one in my 310 tool.

Ive also loaded .457" round balls or the 140 gr "collar button" bullet in 45-70 with 6 1/2 grs Unique I think, 4 grs Red Dot with a .350" round ball in the 348, and messed with some jacketed medium loads in 338 with the Hornady 200 gr flat point 33 win bullet loaded to about 1500 fps. I have a coupe boxes of the half jacket 30 cal 100 gr bullets I want to try in 30-30, 308 and 30-06. The last two would also work with the round balls or a light cast bullet. I have a 30/32 cal 77 gr bullet mold I want to try for light loads in 30 cal stuff. Have loaded a handful of .433" round balls in 44 mag with unremembered powder charge, I don't recall shooting them, but found a few loaded in a cartridge box recently. the Speer manual of a few years ago had a number of such loads listed in several calibers.

I keep a few rounds of 110-120 gr flat point cast bullets in 30-30 loaded with I believe 6 1/2 grs Unique, it ends up around 1200 or so fps, about what the factory 32-20 loads did, and are very pleasant to shoot.

[Lester Polfus]

Years ago, I worked up a load for my .308 with 110 Grain Speer plinkers over 5 grains of unique. I disremember where they chrono'd (I have it written down somewhere), but they are just under sonic out my rifle's 18" barrel.

I don't use any filler. These shoot poi/poa at 25 yards and are very accurate at that range. I carry them when I'm hunting deer and elk, for use on small game and as a potential finishing round for a wounded animal, though I've never had to use them for that.

I shoot the heads off grouse with them, and while shooting rabbits with them isn't legal here, I have little doubt they'd work great for that.

[SLG]

I have a little cartridge "kit" that I have used to launch round balls out of my 308's. It uses a modified case that takes commercial construction type blanks. Neat little setup, that appealed to me when I wasn't a reloader. Now that I reload, I want to revisit the idea. I assumed a heavier bullet would be needed, but it sounds like most of you use standard weight bullets for the caliber, and just load with pistol ammo.

So, if a light load of rifle powder is dangerous because too much volume, is a light load of pistol safe but just needs a little help to reliably ignite so it doesn't float all over the case? I have plenty of unique, and I also have plenty of heavy bullets in .308, starting with 175 and working up to 230. I would not waste the 230's on this application, and would prefer not to use the 208's though I can with no issue. I have so many more 175's that those would be my first choice. Sounds like dbateman is doing that but maybe in 300 and not 308?

Is there a good recipe for 175's and Unique for 308? If not, then is there a better powder for those bullets?

[Lester Polfus]

There is thread after thread on the internet about using light loads in rifles with pistol powders with people divided into the "you will blow your gun up" and the "I've been doing it for years" camps.

I found an article in an old Gun Digest and went for it.

This guy:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Has done extensive work on the subject and has some engineer speak on why it is ok to use pistol powders in rifle cartridges.

[Malamute]

There is thread after thread on the internet about using light loads in rifles with pistol powders with people divided into the "you will blow your gun up" and the "I've been doing it for years" camps.

I found an article in an old Gun Digest and went for it.

This guy:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Has done extensive work on the subject and has some engineer speak on why it is ok to use pistol powders in rifle cartridges.

I was reading SLGs post above yours and went and found the GMDR info,....then saw youd posted it. The Greg Mushial site has some info on the differences in which powders he felt were best for extra-light loads. He felt Unique wasn't best in that role despite it being one of the most used for a long time. He found other powders gave less velocity variation without filler/fluff whatever. I use it because its what I had on hand when I started making extra-light loads or cast rifle loads. Ive started messing with Red Dot some after reading Mushials info.

A copy of the Lyman reloading manual, or better yet, their cast bullet manual has quite a lot of info on cast and light loads. Many of the loads are with fast powders, some with standard rifle powders, so its pretty normal to use pistol or fast powders, its just a question of which powder in which type load, just as any other recipe or application.

I have a 1950s NRA reloading manual, it has two different articles on extra-light loads. If I can get clear image with my not so great cell phone camera I'll send them to anyone that's interested.

Many of the old loading manuals has extra-light loads, they called them cellar or indoors or gallery loads. Theres a couple of the old Ideal (later to be Lyman)manuals online. This one is pretty interesting,

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/re...al-handbook-38


Ed Harris has done a lot of load work over the years, heres one of his pieces on the same site as the old Ideal manuals

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/Cla...tBullets-s.pdf

If one has time to explore, the castboolits forum has mountains of cast and light load information. The guys there seem to mess with all sorts of off the wall stuff, one that sounded fun was extra-light loads in 38 short Colt cases used in 38 spl and 357 guns, both for really easy loads for beginners or for fun in J frame Smiths, and for quiet shooting in 357 rifles. Such loads were described as 38 CB caps when used in rifles, hardly any noise.

Mushial discusses it I believe, but jacketed heavier bullets are more likely to stick bullets in the bore of you go too light. Jacketed bullets have more resistance going down the bore, cast are a little "slicker", and usually favored for extra-light stuff. Once into the above subsonic range its less of an issue.

[JM Campbell]

http://beckammunition.com/ammunition...8-win-subsonic

http://beckammunition.com/ammunition...-subsonic.html

Loaded ammo, I don't have any experience with this company or loadings.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Malamute]

Another option for non-reloaders wanting light loads, the old style chamber adapters. I have one for 30-30 that shoots 32 auto shells, and one for 30-06 for the same. They also make them for 30 carbine in the various 30 cals. The 32 auto is sort of fun to shot, not much noise. They don't feed from the mag, and the empties have to be poked out with a rod. In the Winchester 94, when I eject the adapter, it spins and kicks the 32 auto shell out and I just catch the empty adapter ready to put another 32 in it.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm