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Thread: New member, novice shooter, and how to get better

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
    Question, though: How hard should I grip the pistol? I've heard/read many different "ways," ie., as gentle as an egg; and one as hard as possible...
    I am far from an expert so take this with a grain of salt, but I don't think "as gentle as an egg" is considered a very credible method anymore. Even top bullseye type shooters don't do that because they too need to control recoil. For a self-defense oriented or action-pistol oriented shooter the grip should at least be firm. I think a reasonable method is to see how hard you can grip the gun without your hands shaking and make adjustments from there.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
    ...I'm aware of the FRONT sight focus stuff; what I was trying to say is that targets at 25-yards are so far that the size of the bullseye becomes so small that I can't get a precise overlay with a super clear front sight blade. Essentially the entire front sight blade is bigger/wider than the fuzzy target in the background - how could you hit the center? Would that make sense?
    Bob Taubert's book Rattenkrieg! talks about this. He's an advocate for a narrower front sight. "Keep the front sight thin, and you're in!"

    https://www.amazon.com/Rattenkrieg-S.../dp/0977265943

  3. #13
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Make Ben Stoeger's books your bible, train at least every other day, and you'll be a baller in no time. Over time it all comes together and you figure it out.

    And welcome to the forums!
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  4. #14
    Member rodralig's Avatar
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    Nov 2016
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    Rowland Heights, CA

    New member, novice shooter, and how to get better

    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    Why you no shooty SHO and WHO?
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    Rod - that's some pretty nice shooting, less the missing ten for SHO and WHO It looks like you're doing most everything right. So, obvious questions:

    Did you not shoot SHO and WHO? If not, why not? I'm assuming you didn't miss the paper cleanly all 10 rounds!
    Hahahaha! I guess people seen that...

    Well, simple reason, ever since day #1 into the firearms world, always had practice a two-hand shot. Never tried practicing either Strong Hand or Weak Hand only.

    Simple reason - thinking to master two-hands first before going to something more complicated...



    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    Make Ben Stoeger's books your bible, train at least every other day, and you'll be a baller in no time. Over time it all comes together and you figure it out.

    And welcome to the forums!
    Thank you!

    I actually have Ben's book on practical shooting. Have always had practiced the White Wall Drill, both timed (par 2.0) and untimed.

    Although, my dry practice doesn't seem to be transferring to my live fire.

    I've reset again my practice - making it more structured by using his New Shooter recipe for a month...


    Quote Originally Posted by Wendell View Post
    Bob Taubert's book Rattenkrieg! talks about this. He's an advocate for a narrower front sight. "Keep the front sight thin, and you're in!"

    https://www.amazon.com/Rattenkrieg-S.../dp/0977265943
    Let me check this out! Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    To your original question regarding aiming at discrete targets at longer ranges, you have to find how your sights "hold." It sounds, from your description, that the sights you're using are "drive the dot" - meaning the bullet impacts nearly directly on the front sight "dot" (be it tritium, or FO, or paint). These sights are hard to use at long range on small targets, since, as you've found, they obscure the target completely. There are lots of sight options, the "best" for accuracy work print either to the top edge of the front sight, or, for strictly accuracy work, provide a "six o'clock" hold, where you balance the black on top of the top edge of the front sight.
    Insightful! Let me try to reflect on this in my next range session. Thanks!




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    Last edited by rodralig; 11-09-2016 at 10:21 AM.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
    Hahahaha! I guess people seen that...

    Well, simple reason, ever since day #1 into the firearms world, always had practice a two-hand shot. Never tried practicing either Strong Hand or Weak Hand only.

    Simple reason - thinking to master two-hands first before going to something more complicated.
    That's like wanting to be a champion body builder but skipping leg day.

    Mastering pistol shooting can take a lifetime. Start SHO/WHO now. It's right in front of you! IDPA/USPSA does have a good amount of SHO/WHO shooting.

    I think you didn't want to screw up your pretty target. Practice what you're not good at. That's why you see most people at your local range shooting freestyle at 7 yards.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    That's like wanting to be a champion body builder but skipping leg day.

    Mastering pistol shooting can take a lifetime. Start SHO/WHO now. It's right in front of you! IDPA/USPSA does have a good amount of SHO/WHO shooting.

    I think you didn't want to screw up your pretty target. Practice what you're not good at. That's why you see most people at your local range shooting freestyle at 7 yards.
    This.

    Also, in regards to your grip and control for distance shooting try this every range session:

    Work one or two magazines tuning your grip and trigger press with the only goal of not moving the gun during the shot. Don't even use a target if you can see your sights clearly against the berm or backstop. If you cannot, just put up a big blank sheet of paper. Don't worry about aiming, just make the gun still while breaking your shots.

    As to the Vogel technique of torquing your grip into the gun... Try to make your elbows point a little more outward as opposed to the more natural downward pointing. Get your grip on and then tighten up and push your elbows out a few degrees until you feel your shoulders and forearms tension slightly. This should give you a bit more leverage into the gun AND set your elbows up to act as natural shock absorbers during recoil. It's more than just the bit of grip advantage that the position gives, the whole is greater than the sum of parts IME.

    Don't beat yourself up, though. Pretty much everyone sucks WAAAAAAAY worse the first few times they compete than they expect to. It's normal. Don't use your competition results as any sort of measurement right now. Just use it to keep from falling into a comfortable spot of complacency.

  7. #17
    Member rodralig's Avatar
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    Nov 2016
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    Rowland Heights, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    Mastering pistol shooting can take a lifetime. Start SHO/WHO now. It's right in front of you! IDPA/USPSA does have a good amount of SHO/WHO shooting.
    I guess you are right. Sooner or later - I will have to be doing SHO/WHO only, anyways

    I think you didn't want to screw up your pretty target.
    Well, that TOO...

    That's why you see most people at your local range shooting freestyle at 7 yards.
    What do you mean by freestyle...?


    Quote Originally Posted by OnionsAndDragons View Post
    This.

    Also, in regards to your grip and control for distance shooting try this every range session:

    Work one or two magazines tuning your grip and trigger press with the only goal of not moving the gun during the shot. Don't even use a target if you can see your sights clearly against the berm or backstop. If you cannot, just put up a big blank sheet of paper. Don't worry about aiming, just make the gun still while breaking your shots.
    I practice this using the One Hole Drill at 3-yd and at 5-yd on a blank piece of paper. Can do it for about 5-rounds, then it gets crazy from there...

    For now, I think I'll work on the Dot Torture at 7-yds, while including SHO/WHO parts.

    Then Adam Painchaud's Drill with the Police Training Drill/Target (the one that has LOTS of colored circles in a 4x4).

    [b]Don't beat yourself up, though. Pretty much everyone sucks WAAAAAAAY worse the first few times they compete than they expect to. It's normal. Don't use your competition results as any sort of measurement right now. Just use it to keep from falling into a comfortable spot of complacency.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks!

    I guess I just feel bad that in spite of practicing - I wasn't able to perform to my expectations. Long times are fine; but had lots of misses...


    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    To your original question regarding aiming at discrete targets at longer ranges, you have to find how your sights "hold." It sounds, from your description, that the sights you're using are "drive the dot" - meaning the bullet impacts nearly directly on the front sight "dot" (be it tritium, or FO, or paint). These sights are hard to use at long range on small targets, since, as you've found, they obscure the target completely. There are lots of sight options, the "best" for accuracy work print either to the top edge of the front sight, or, for strictly accuracy work, provide a "six o'clock" hold, where you balance the black on top of the top edge of the front sight.
    I guess that SUMS it up... Because of an FO sight, it is actually challenging to focus on the center of the top blade of the front sight with a center mass hold; as such, for longer distances, I use, as you've said "drive the dot."

    Hhhhhmmm...

    So, in reality, for an average/intermediate shooter - how tight a group at 25-yards can one expect from a stock pistol (not "tuned" for bullseye shooting)...?



    That said - as I continue my practice... A few questions comes to mind (as there were mentions that I use "too much" guns):

    [i]How would it work that my practice/training gun uses a 40S&W, while a competition gun would be in 9mm...? They would be the same platform, ie., both Glocks...

    Thanks in advanced!





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