Review - MDTS Training - Practical Shotgun 1 11/5/16

[Shellback]

Unfortunately I didn't have time to scribble notes during the class so I'm going off of memory. I also don't have a lot of time to write an in depth review but there were several other forum members present who I'm sure will contribute to this thread.

Practical Shotgun 1 was my 3rd class with Chris Fry of MDTS Training. I am a shotgun novice and my knowledge prior to this class was slightly more than your average Joe. I ran a bare bones Beretta 1301T and had zero malfunctions through roughly 250 rounds.

We started off with an emergency plan, safety rules, weapon familiarization, shotgun accessories, ammunition choices, and an overview of some self-defense laws. From there Chris detailed the 4 points of contact, proper shooting stance, and went into the four reloading techniques that he teaches (2 for each paw). He also covered recoil mitigation, the push-pull technique, and proper body placement of the weapon.

We ran numerous drills with 2 squads of 8 people. Chris being primary instructor and Jimmy being his AI. Both gave individual attention, corrections, and encouragement to everyone on an individual basis.

The malfunction drill/team race was fun for everyone. It was also a great introduction to weapon familiarization for everyone forcing them to unfuck different shotguns of various makes and models. It was a big lightbulb moment for everyone and I'm sure most will seek out various models of shotguns, rifles, and pistols to become better acquainted with should the need ever arise to have to operate one.

The last leg was shotgun patterning with the various 00 buck and slugs that everyone brought at varying distances. Needless to say the Federal Flite Control was the best performer.

In a nutshell... Chris cuts through the Mittyesque "man camp" bullshit and offers real world applicable classes for the average citizen and LEO alike. He stresses safety, accuracy, accountability, and encourages people to put forth their best effort all while making things fun and entertaining. Chris is a top notch coach and instructor.

[SouthNarc]

Chris has been running his firearms business longer than I've been doing open enrollment training, and is probably one of the best kept "secrets" in the business. Quietly doing good work.

I can't recommend him enough.

[Paul Sharp]

Chris has been running his firearms business longer than I've been doing open enrollment training, and is probably one of the best kept "secrets" in the business. Quietly doing good work.

I can't recommend him enough.

I second this.

[WobblyPossum]

This was my first formal shotgun instruction outside of the military (here's your shotgun, try not to shoot yourself) and my police academy (20 rounds of fam fire with buckshot). I attended this class with a basically stock Beretta 1301 (I added Tom's excellent full coverage shroud).

Chris Fry did an excellent job starting from the absolute basics and building us up from there. He had a great explanation of the different types of ammunition, the push-pull method of recoil control, and the basic legalities of using a firearm for self defense. The lesson plan was well structured, allowing us to practice a technique immediately after receiving instruction.

Two things I really liked:
1. Our first manipulations of the guns were dry with dummy rounds. We practiced the different loading methods as well as mounting the guns and using the push-pull technique. I thought that was especially useful for a level one class.
2. Chris' safety/medical brief was perfect. He had four IFAKs set up right behind the firing line. He designated someone to call 911 and someone to flag down the ambulance if we needed one. Chris identified two students with medical training who were then designated to assist him in the event of a medical emergency. An AED was available in the clubhouse. Chris had all of his equipment in two large plastic trunks in the back of his Jeep. If it became necessary to evac someone, all we had to do was remove the trunks and we could load the casualty in the back of the Jeep. I truly wish every instructor had an emergency plan this detailed.

Chris was a knowledgeable instructor who was able to articulate the reasoning behind why he taught what he taught. Everyone received some individual attention and coaching. I would not hesitate to train with Chris again and I plan to do just that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shellback]

Two things I really liked:
1. Our first manipulations of the guns were dry with dummy rounds. We practiced the different loading methods as well as mounting the guns and using the push-pull technique. I thought that was especially useful for a level one class.
2. Chris' safety/medical brief was perfect...

Two great points Dan. I neglected to mention the dummy rounds, which were a fantastic training aid, and your detail on the safety/med is much appreciated.

Also, I forgot to mention I was running Tom Jones reduced coverage shroud and an elastic 4 pack velcro side saddle detailed in the 1301 thread. Tom's bikini shroud worked perfectly and the elastic side saddle did the job, but isn't great by any means, due to shell migration under recoil.

[Cecil Burch]

I second this.

I third it. I have stolen a ton of ideas for how to coach properly from Chris. He's a master instructor.

[ChrisFry]

Thanks all

Chris

[SpyderMan2k4]

My very first bit of shotgun instruction was in August 2014. Chris Fry of Modern Defensive Training Systems (MDTS) taught a 4 hour shotgun block at Paul-E-Palooza 2, a fundraiser for the children of the late Paul Gomez. It was then that I learned how much I didn't know, and if I was going to make shotgun accessories I better know what I was doing. I attended Practical Shotgun Skills with MDTS in Ontario, NY a few months later for a full day of instruction. It was a great class, but then again, I had no base line.

In the two years since that first MDTS class, I've attended 4 other shotgun classes (all with different instructors) before taking Practical Shotgun Skills with MDTS again this past weekend, again in Ontario, NY. I will tell you that the other instruction has not been bad at all, and each class and instructor's take is excellent for a different point of view and what they choose to cover in the given time. I will also tell you that the MDTS class is my favorite I've been to.

The class started like many others: discussing the pros and cons of shotguns, some guidelines for justifiable use, context and use of the different available ammunition, and of course a safety brief. Like the other classes, a student proposed that a con of the shotgun was recoil. While this can be true, proper technique mitigates this concern. This is where I began to notice where Fry sets himself apart.

Every instructor I've learned from has taught the push/pull technique- pushing forward on the forend with the support hand, pulling back on the grip with the strong/firing hand, the most proven method for recoil mitigation. Chris was sure to go far, far beyond this. Unlike many firearms instructors, he also teaches combatives classes, specifically in Small Knife and Edged Weapons. To practice what he preaches, he trains regularly in boxing and jiu jitsu, falling inline with other highly regarded combatives curriculum like that implemented by Shivworks. With this context, it gave me a greater understanding and appreciation for the amount of time and detail that Chris spent not just on push/pull technique, but also specific posture and stance. Descriptions and thorough explanation of anatomy helped make sense of the importance of stock placement when mounting the gun, foot position, shoulder and head position, etc.

We covered emergency reloads and the importance of feeding the chamber before the tube. When it came time to load the magazine, we were taught four different techniques, two with each hand. Everyone got the opportunity to practice each method dry using dummy rounds. One method, adopted from competition shooting, I'm sure would be frowned upon by some that are uber-tactical or closed minded, was incredibly fast, efficient, and easy to work with. Having learned it two years ago, I used that as the base to develop my loading method of “tactical twins,” which is twins loading from a side saddle instead of a dedicated competition rig. It is uncommon for an instructor to dive into a variety of techniques and let the students figure out what works best for them and why, and it is appreciated.

We ran drills throughout the day that put an emphasis on ammo management and the ability to keep the gun loaded; both hardware and software are necessary pull this off. The phrase “sight alignment, push/pull” was repeated regularly as a constant reminder that you have to aim shotguns, and you have to own them or they will own you.

Fry covered a variety of malfunctions that can (and do) occur in shotguns. A few key concepts were given that really aid in problem solving in order to clear any issues. We ran a competitive drill called “malfunction junction” which has multiple firearms set up with a variety of malfunctions. Each student would need to clear the problem and fire a round on target before moving on to the next set up gun. This was quite challenging as a mix of pump action and semi autos were at the instructor's disposal. Considering many guns, especially semis, work slightly differently, it became quite the problem solving exercise for many of us. While other classes may have mentioned malfunctions, MDTS is the only one (that I've been to) that actually drills it. It's also an incredibly fun drill, and a little competition among classmates is good for the soul.

The class moved out to 25 yards as we were done with birdshot for the day. Fry taught us how to do a slug select with different types of guns. That is, if the gun is topped off (in this case with buckshot), how to efficiently make room to insert a slug. This can be a touchy area, and understandably so. Outside of law enforcement, the odds of needing a slug are much lower. Combine that with the improved range of Federal Flight Control buckshot, many instructors feel the applicability of slug select is low enough that time is better spent on other things. That's hard to argue with as a civilian. However, while I personally am unlikely to have to use that in a life or death situation, I feel it is a great skill to have. Working the drill develops a deeper understanding of exactly how that specific shotgun works and improves overall proficiency. I'm definitely a fan of it.

We finished up the day by firing at different areas of a paper silhouette with our buckshot at a 3, 5, and 7 yards. This allowed each student to see exactly how their particular load would pattern out of their gun at different “inside the household” ranges. This was certainly an eye opener for some as many stray pellets would have to be accounted for. No surprise, Flight Control offered the best performance.

There is a lot that can be covered in a shotgun class. I imagine the difficult part is determining what to cover in the given time. Practical Shogun Skills is just that. It does a great job at teaching and developing skills that are practical to both every day civilians as well as law enforcement officers. Chris manages to cover a lot of incredibly beneficial material in a one day class without being overbearing. As a testament to this, there was a man and woman there who just bought their shotgun shortly before this class. They had fired it two times- that was the only two times either of them fired a shotgun. They both did great and really didn't miss a beat. I give them a lot of credit for getting training, but I also give Fry credit for being able to reach both novice and experience shooters with the same instruction. It was a fantastic class and well worth the tuition and the six hour drive. MDTS's Practical Shotgun Skills absolutely belongs in the conversation of “best shotgun classes available.”