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Thread: Competition gets you killed on the streets.

  1. #261
    It's crazy to me to go back and read my first post in this thread.

    Actually, it's cringy.

    I feel like I was explaining something to a group of folks who were already aware. It was a real revelation to me at the time, but more of a "no shit, sherlock" to most here. I guess my thoughts and views have developed a fair amount since then. All the same I wish this thread would die so I dont feel embarrassed knowing people will read that OP thinking that's where I'm at in my journey.

  2. #262
    Member Leroy Suggs's Avatar
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    @Cory, you have nothing to be embarressed about.
    It shows how much you have grown in your time here.
    Nobody here started as an expert. They got there thru learning and growth. Just like you're doing.
    You have done well. You are one of the good guys.

  3. #263
    Site Supporter JCL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    It's crazy to me to go back and read my first post in this thread.

    Actually, it's cringy.

    I feel like I was explaining something to a group of folks who were already aware. It was a real revelation to me at the time, but more of a "no shit, sherlock" to most here. I guess my thoughts and views have developed a fair amount since then. All the same I wish this thread would die so I dont feel embarrassed knowing people will read that OP thinking that's where I'm at in my journey.
    Nope, it's an informative and through-provoking thread that's consistently moved forward despite flirting with the weeds from time to time.

  4. #264
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    It's a good thread. By now, the consensus is that competition, skills training plus realistic self-defense training (from quality instructors) is the way to go. Pretty simple when you think about it. We are lucky to have people who can speak to all of these and offer all of these on p-f.

    I forgot to say for those in Law Enforcement, the excellent law enforcement oriented training out there. For FOGS, not so relevant but fun to read.

  5. #265
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    Any thoughts on what he could have done better?

    And did I see some turtleing ?

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    If you told me that Taran developed this for a movie, I would believe it. Every competition shooter's wet dream. I can see a lot that could have gone wrong and didn't, starting from getting within grasp at the beginning, and having just enough ammo to get it done.
    I’ve been a competition shooter for 30 years now. I have zero desire now, or have ever had, to be in a gun fight. YMMV.

  7. #267
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Competition gets you killed on the streets.

    I'm cross-referencing @TCinVA's excellent post in the searching with WML thread, highlighting the text in bold below. Always tracking the gun with your eyes is a terrible idea for competitive shooters as well. A key skill in practical shooting is embracing the sequence of 1) getting your eyes to the (next) target as fast as possible, 2) looking exactly where you need to shoot, 3) moving the gun, 4) seeing the dot or sights arrive on target, and 5) breaking the shot after confirming the dot/sights appropriately for the target difficulty.

    Moving the gun rapidly so the dot/sights appear exactly where you're looking is a core skill that requires significant practice. At last weekend's USPSA match, there were two Open shooters on my squad who have been in the sport for decades. Both "lost" their dot multiple times on stages, and it cost them dearly. My former coach had no patience for that, and would assign 100's of daily dry reps if that happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    So that video brings up a few things that highlight some of the problems in having these discussions.

    I don't do what Mike Glover used to do. He's way higher speed than I'll ever be.

    That out of the way, there's things that his prior career conditioned him to do which are a spectacularly bad idea in the world most police officers and normal joes deal with.

    The idea of having the gun tracking to your eyes is a terrible idea for police and citizens. If one is inside a structure that is believed to be full of highly dangerous terrorists or elite enemy forces, you may well need to get around that structure with an immediate "shooting solution" ready to go...meaning you keep the gun oriented where you are looking, usually with the muzzle up just as he models in the video.

    That's a catastrophically bad idea for a patrolman doing a building search. It's not as bad as saying that red dots on handguns reduce mistake of fact shootings, but it's kind of in the same vein. If the gun is pointing at what you're looking at, the gun is pointing at somebody you don't have legal justification to shoot yet. I'm sure you can go through police body cam footage and maybe find an instance or two where an officer got shot because they didn't have an immediate shooting solution, but you're going to find a whole lot more instances of mistake of fact shootings where someone who hadn't yet earned a bullet caught one because the officer had too immediate of a shooting solution.
    ...

    What I've noticed is that very few structures in the real world are set up like shoothouses. I've been in far more circumstances where I turn on a light and think "WTF is that?" because of shadows and the like than I've been getting my NV completely zapped in a completely dark environment and left blinded for a couple of seconds. A compelling reason to have a light with a lot of horsepower is the ability to use the light indirectly. With the 500 lumen light on my shotgun I can hit the ceiling, completely eliminate shadows in a dark room and see pretty much everything I need to see to understand if there's a reason to zoom in on a particular area with direct light and direct muzzle. When I use indirect light, I'm not getting all my rhodopsin saturated by the light. If dude is there, well dude needs all my attention at this moment where I'm making the decision about whether or not I have to shoot him.

    I can expect other dudes if he is the bad guy and I can go back to indirect light to see enough of what's going on to figure out if I need to shoot them, too.

    Or...and I know this is radical...I can turn the fucking lights on in the house. Because once it reaches the point where I have gun on dude, it's highly likely everybody is going to know where I'm at because I'm either shooting or giving very loud and direct commands to get the fuck out of my house.

    A guy doing Ranger things or some SWAT things has different requirements, priorities, legal cover, and levels of accountability to a regular joe or normal patrolman doing normal patrolman things. It's a rare fellow who comes from one arena and is able to really understand how differently things need to be looked at in another.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 09-29-2022 at 10:32 AM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  8. #268
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    One of the nice things I like about our current house alarm system is that it’s connected to a multitude of indoor and outdoor flood lights. Single command to light up the whole house and surrounding area.

  9. #269
    Site Supporter Oldherkpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    One of the nice things I like about our current house alarm system is that it’s connected to a multitude of indoor and outdoor flood lights. Single command to light up the whole house and surrounding area.
    Be careful- "light up the whole house" means different things to different people!😁

  10. #270
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    This is a pretty good article on why FOF is a good thing to do. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ta...for-civilians/

    Another: https://blog.krtraining.com/experien...al-conference/

    The section on some pain is certainly true. Had the bruises and a touch of blood to show from it.

    If USPSA or IDPA targets shot back, it would give one a different view on some things. Never saw an extreme stress reaction after a match, they occur in intense FOF.

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