Competition gets you killed on the streets.

[Mr_White]

Is competition bad...I don't think so, BUT on a personal level I had to relegate it elsewhere when it began to consume me. When I started doing things in matches counter to all my significant training and then putting in reps doing it in a way to win matches, I had to rethink what I was doing.

DB, would you mind saying what those things were? I know we all draw the line differently with regard to being a tactical guy using competition - what did you reign yourself in on exactly?

[breakingtime91]

DB, would you mind saying what those things were? I know we all draw the line differently with regard to being a tactical guy using competition - what did you reign yourself in on exactly?

This is the type of question that makes a good discussion. I don't have enough experience to have a opinion on this but just wanted to say I'm glad see a question like this because I was curious as well.

[Zincwarrior]

DB, would you mind saying what those things were? I know we all draw the line differently with regard to being a tactical guy using competition - what did you reign yourself in on exactly?

(new poster sticking his nose in)
Interestingly, with the plethora of new CHL and OC laws in place now (as well as advances in technology), a bit of the argument has fallen by the wayside. Persons can now indeed carry what would have been considered in many ways "race guns" if they desire. My pistol and spare mag holster setup are the same that I use in competition, and more "race gunny" options can now be carried (optics, and lights). While its not my desire, there's no reason someone could not carry a high end race gun OC in Texas now.

[Mr_White]

This is the type of questions that makes a good discussion. I don't have enough experience to have a opinion on this but just wanted to say I'm glad see a question like this because I was curious as well.

For me, I can see a lot of un-tactical things going on in competitive shooting, and on balance I think it's still a massively positive thing for a tactical practitioner to participate in. The un-tactical stuff simply needs to be countered with tactical training, where those things are a focus. I know or think I know some of what DB has issues with, but this seems like a great opportunity for him to nail down the specifics as he sees them.

[Mr_White]

(new poster sticking his nose in)
Interestingly, with the plethora of new CHL and OC laws in place now (as well as advances in technology), a bit of the argument has fallen by the wayside. Persons can now indeed carry what would have been considered in many ways "race guns" if they desire. My pistol and spare mag holster setup are the same that I use in competition, and more "race gunny" options can now be carried (optics, and lights). While its not my desire, there's no reason someone could not carry a high end race gun OC in Texas now.

Making a conscious choice to unify equipment or not is certainly a thing and there are different credible approaches there IMHO.

I hope we don't get sucked into the open carry tangent too much though. My question to DB is more about procedure I think.

I hear what you are saying about carrying a more capable (of accurate and fast shooting) gun, but there are some things I'd personally be unwilling to give up - chiefly a mechanically safe/drop safe pistol, and what I'd consider a reasonable trigger system for defensive use. People have suggested, and I have briefly considered, moving to a more proper Limited gun and carrying it too. Assuming I were satisfied with the mechanical/drop safety and the trigger, it would still be a huge and expensive logistical issue that I really have no desire to mess around with myself. I so think the idea of somebody AIWBing an STI or something, again, that was suitable as a defensive gun, is pretty intriguing though.

[Peally]

Why are we even discussing all of this. The solution came out in 2014:

[Cheap Shot]

For me, I can see a lot of un-tactical things going on in competitive shooting, and on balance I think it's still a massively positive thing for a tactical practitioner to participate in. The un-tactical stuff simply needs to be countered with tactical training, where those things are a focus. I know or think I know some of what DB has issues with, but this seems like a great opportunity for him to nail down the specifics as he sees them.

This could be a business opportunity, tactical training for gamer fags. Please teach me, and the rest of the unwashed masses.

[Zincwarrior]

Making a conscious choice to unify equipment or not is certainly a thing and there are different credible approaches there IMHO.

I hope we don't get sucked into the open carry tangent too much though. My question to DB is more about procedure I think.

I hear what you are saying about carrying a more capable (of accurate and fast shooting) gun, but there are some things I'd personally be unwilling to give up - chiefly a mechanically safe/drop safe pistol, and what I'd consider a reasonable trigger system for defensive use. People have suggested, and I have briefly considered, moving to a more proper Limited gun and carrying it too. Assuming I were satisfied with the mechanical/drop safety and the trigger, it would still be a huge and expensive logistical issue that I really have no desire to mess around with myself. I so think the idea of somebody AIWBing an STI or something, again, that was suitable as a defensive gun, is pretty intriguing though.

Excellent points. Extended carry brings up these additional issues of safety etc.

[Dagga Boy]

Why can't I quit this thread?

The biggest benefit competition has at least for me is that I'm not spending time using my brain to think about shooting, because it's got that part of the encounter decently figured out, so I can spend my brain power doing other things like figuring out if this guy is going to run the barrier or he's just a lost-ass Korean.

I know.....these threads are like an addiction. I know I should not read them....and do. I know I should not post.....and still do.

I agree with what you are saying. During an actual shooting incident your shooting needs to be on auto pilot and at a sub conscious level......what you have loaded into the computer is what is going to get tested, and that is what you are going to do. Not....."well in a real life situation I would do this". Nope.....you will do what is repetitively loaded and what is most significant.

DB, would you mind saying what those things were? I know we all draw the line differently with regard to being a tactical guy using competition - what did you reign yourself in on exactly?

I knew I was headed down a bad road when I was running from a "cover" position with an empty gun...that I knew was empty...to reload in the open while on my way to where I knew more "bad guys" were. Humping cover and gaming cover. Actually sitting there counting in my head rounds and places to time my reloads to have one round in the gun. Being okay with bolstering an unloaded gun after shooting. All sorts of administrative handling not based on any sort of actual safety. All sorts of tactical handling not based on any sort of actual tactical gun handling.

Later I tried shooting matches "tactically correct". Boy was this a total disaster. Everyone was basically mad at me, or wanted to lecture me about how I did it wrong. I always found it humorous that I was being lectured by tow truck drivers and a plumber about room clearing and hostage rescue......being I spent my entire adult life actually doing that and training others to as my actual profession. Looking back, I was in the wrong for doing this. Their match, their rules. I was able to find a very cool group for awhile that shot "tactical matches" that were exceptionally good. Of course they were very subjective and you could actually "win" by being better at explaining how you handled a problem to the group than by what your time was. Time and scoring were "guides" and more of a factor than anything else.

At this point I simply stay off competive forums and topics. Not my game, and when I do go to a match I usually shoot a revolver these days. Simple for me. Match Mindset, Match Marksmanship, Match Gun Handling & Tactics. These are very different than Combat Mindset, Combat Marksmanship, and Combat Gun Handling and Tactics. Also, living an armed lifestyle requires its own set of Mindset and Gun Handling stuff. You cannot mix them. Some people are exceptionally good at mentally compartmentalizing these things. Others, myself included, are not. I can at least admit I cannot.....so I have self identified the juice was not worth the squeeze when it came to "sport shooting". I still incorporate a lot of "competition" into what I do. You should be competing every time you shoot. What we are competing against is the big difference.

Also, for those who say that people against sport shooting are because the suck can keep believing that. There was a time with young eyes, young reflexes, and an unlimited amount of ammo and range time where I was winning a lot of trophy's at local matches. Part of the problem was I was getting more consumed with winning matches than winning fights. I will say my favorite stuff is man on man falling steel. It is pure fundamentals, actually knowing how fast you can be accurate, and all shooting and no fantasy tactics. When I go to a match Hess days.....falling steel with a revolver.

[Mr_White]

This could be a business opportunity, tactical training for gamer fags. Please teach me, and the rest of the unwashed masses.

Heh, well maybe.

I may be wrong about this, but I think the custom of paying lots of money to go to lots of training exists more in the tactical community than the competitive community. A lot of competitive shooters manage very effective self-guided practice in technical skill improvement. Some people bang their head against the wall for a long time too though.

Basic tactical procedures, the lack of which is a large portion of the usual complaint about competition being un-tactical, are pretty easy to learn and are addressed in a whole lot of well-conducted tactical training that is available all over the country, from many people besides me.