I would bet good money that Mr. Howe and the PMI who uses that phrase know each other.Originally Posted by Paul Sharp
I would bet good money that Mr. Howe and the PMI who uses that phrase know each other.
I'm totally lost in this conversation from a practical stand point. As a FOG civilian, my options for practice are:
1. Shoot at a square range from a static position with no draw, slow fire and surrounded by doofuses shooting a Tec-9 at 7 yards and spraying the B-27 from top to bottom.
2. Take a FOF class every once in awhile. Well, I do when I can but there are calendar restraints and they are expensive. If I can take two classes a year, I'm lucky. Lately, I've been busy and had other expenses/responsibilities.
3. Shoot IDPA with my carry guns or our local short range match, two to three times a month. It keeps up my technical skills, some small stress and get to interact with some knowledgeable folks (at least in my local venue). Not a fan of USPSA but that's not a real issue. I would if I wanted to. Sometimes steel for grins.
I don't think my mindset is confused or I will default to match muscle memory fail in extremis. One never knows but tell me the optimal practice regime for a civilian beyond the rare class and square range if not a competition. Sure IDPA or USPSA are not 'real' - so ditch them? Nope.
PS - I do dry fire and blast around the house with a SIRT. Many lamps and miscreants on TV have felt the fury of the red laser. Funny, I once left the SIRT out and my wife yelled at me for leaving a gun out. I said - sorry but it's not my 9mm Glock but a Laser. She said - they're making laser pistols now! Ha - I wish - I said - No, it's just a laser pointer in a gun shape. Marital harmony returned.
Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 11-02-2016 at 11:29 AM.
Tom G's lead article is relevant here:
http://rangemaster.com/wp-content/up...Newsletter.pdf
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Ugh...This discussion is happening more frequently on pistol-forum lately with essentially the same people arguing about the same things....
One thing I know for sure: each time I see somebody is talking against competition, I can safely assume this person is a mediocre shooter.
I assume they're too young to remember when there wasn't a trainer behind every tree.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
I just went through Tom Givens' Pistol Instructor Development course this past weekend. One of the most interesting things I saw, and what is pertinent to the discussion here, was that those in the class who had competition experience breezed through the shooting problems and quals. Those who did not, including one particularly vocal individual who kept bleating about competition is artificial and bad, had tons of issues, and had massive problems passing the qualification tests. The ones who competed had no problems at all when Tom upped the stress levels as we progressed. They still scored just as high on said quals as when there was little stress. Interestingly, one of the ones who failed the course totally was Mr Competition will get you kilt.
And anyone who will try to say that Tom's class is a competition class is a bigger fool and is more ignorant than they know.
Last edited by Cecil Burch; 11-02-2016 at 12:27 PM.
For info about training or to contact me:
Immediate Action Combatives
I ll make this as simple as possible. To quote Pat Rogers..."Practice makes permanent". Add this to what I have found in my studies of the things that appear during a high stress crisis is the last significant training (for the cops....not qualification....it tends to be the academy as last significant). So......what do you want to be permanent and what do you want front loaded as short cuts into your sub conscious brain......period.
Is competition bad...I don't think so, BUT on a personal level I had to relegate it elsewhere when it began to consume me. When I started doing things in matches counter to all my significant training and then putting in reps doing it in a way to win matches, I had to rethink what I was doing. I simply replaced competition with a lot of training and training classes that were set up with the gun as a force tool instead of as a device used to compete.
I look at competitive shooting for cops just like running, martial arts, bike riding, or other fitness and hobbies that can be helpful. I would contend if it is all you do as "training" for a crisis or violent encounter, you may be screwed. Essentially you are trying to work through a complex problem solving event and you have only worked on a very small part of the problem that you have exerted a massive amount of effort into. I think some people are helping themselves by shooting competitively, and some are doing damage. Many of the people I have seen at matches scare the crap out of me on what they are doing......by the same token, it is the same at public and police ranges. Just because your a competitive shooter doesn't make you good.....just like carrying a gun as a cop everyday doesn't make you good either.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
Of course not, you're not "good" if you have a D plastered on your qual card
Semper Gumby, Always Flexible
I think the assumption VDM has is that everyone "against him" is saying that games are the one and only way to get good. I don't know that anyone here would view the quotes as wrong and most would accept it as a universal forum stance on the matter.
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Think for yourself. Question authority.
Why can't I quit this thread?
The biggest benefit competition has at least for me is that I'm not spending time using my brain to think about shooting, because it's got that part of the encounter decently figured out, so I can spend my brain power doing other things like figuring out if this guy is going to run the barrier or he's just a lost-ass Korean.
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