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Thread: Competition gets you killed on the streets.

  1. #281
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    Thread drift- Is HPD issuing a RDS? If so, what is it?
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  2. #282
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    @HCM....yeah I think the research overwhelmingly favors the "distributed practice" model over block training. We had the logistical scenario you describe: range was across town from the Academy facility. For the last class that we trained when I was running the program, we utilized a "hybrid" model. We got to do it because the captain was extremely supportive of what we were doing. Traditionally there was a 4 hr "Intro to Range session" in week 3 of the Academy. Issue holsters, mag pouches, blue guns. Set up the belts, quick intro to drawing from the holster. Tour of the range and loading magazines if time allowed. Then in the second half of the Academy (after week 18) came the 2 week range block. We convinced them to make the Intro 2 full days. We got all of the admin stuff (assigning guns, safety and maintainance lectures) out of the way, did the Intro stuff, and actually got them shooting on day 2. Then they would come back every other week for 2 hrs of live fire. So they came to the 2 week block 'primed' to learn. That group flew through our daytime handgun and shotgun tests at the end of the program. They got more dynamic movement practice, more shoot/don't shoot exercises, than any group before. The tests were easy to them. No confidence failures.

    Of course....all of that has been discontinued. And the red hats openly tell students "That John Wick competition crap doesn't translate to police work!"

    Ca POST was considering changing 'Shotgun' in the Training and Testing Standards to 'Long gun', to let presenters decide. But they didn't....so trainers need to teach it anyway.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcdgrips View Post
    Thread drift- Is HPD issuing a RDS? If so, what is it?
    HPD usually does not usually issue guns but the designated gun for trainees I mentioned was G17.5 with RMR.

    HPD has authorized RDS for a few years.

    San Antonio, Austin and Ft Worth are all somewhere in the process as well.

    AFAIK are at least 4 state police agencies issuing RDS:

    Delaware (SIG P320 /R1P)
    Utah (G17.5 /Holosun 509)
    Idaho (G19.5 /Holosun 509)
    Alaska (G17.5 /Holosun 509)

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    HPD usually does not usually issue guns but the designated gun for trainees I mentioned was G17.5 with RMR.

    HPD has authorized RDS for a few years.

    San Antonio, Austin and Ft Worth are all somewhere in the process as well.

    AFAIK are at least 4 state police agencies issuing RDS:

    Delaware (SIG P320 /R1P)
    Utah (G17.5 /Holosun 509)
    Idaho (G19.5 /Holosun 509)
    Alaska (G17.5 /Holosun 509)
    Mom can we please have a quality closed emitter pistol dot that is designed and made in the USA?

    No we have one at home.

    The one at home:
    Name:  1C85D88C-0404-495A-8BF0-75D813F4DA36.jpg
Views: 419
Size:  27.7 KB

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    HPD usually does not usually issue guns but the designated gun for trainees I mentioned was G17.5 with RMR.

    HPD has authorized RDS for a few years.

    San Antonio, Austin and Ft Worth are all somewhere in the process as well.

    AFAIK are at least 4 state police agencies issuing RDS:

    Delaware (SIG P320 /R1P)
    Utah (G17.5 /Holosun 509)
    Idaho (G19.5 /Holosun 509)
    Alaska (G17.5 /Holosun 509)
    San Antonio has approved rds on their .40 s&w m&p and Fort Worth had an entire academy class that they issued SRO's to

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utm View Post
    San Antonio has approved rds on their .40 s&w m&p and Fort Worth had an entire academy class that they issued SRO's to
    I’m aware re: SA but they don’t yet issue RDS pistols.

    San Antonio approved RDS POWs almost 2 years ago but not an option for the issued M&P 40s.

    Initially they approved M&P CORE models but M&P COREs in 40 are not easy to find and the CORE itself was a shit show. Enough of a shit show they are recommending direct milling at this time. The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops and not many are into guns enough to want to dump $1000 into replacing an issued duty gun that could wind up in an evidence locker.

    There are proposals to issue a 9mm pistol with an enclosed emitter RDS. If/when that will happen remains to be seen. Hopefully before the current Chief retires as he is sold on RDS.

    So a lot of people don’t want to wait for the new 9mm instead of investing in a .40.

    All of which means not many RDS on the street.

    Fort Worth probably would’ve been the first department to issue RDS but they had the opposite problem from SA and had to wait for a Fudd to retire.

    Austin is committed to issuing the direct milled M&P 2.0 9mm with the ACRO P-2 whenever funding and supply chain issues allow.
    Last edited by HCM; 09-29-2022 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    Mom can we please have a quality closed emitter pistol dot that is designed and made in the USA?

    No we have one at home.

    The one at home:
    Name:  1C85D88C-0404-495A-8BF0-75D813F4DA36.jpg
Views: 419
Size:  27.7 KB
    Utah HP was the first state police agency to issue RDS, Glock 17 MOS with RMRs. They replaced the RMRs with 509s maybe two years ago when the Gen 2 509s came out.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    The other day I listened to Matt Prankas Redneck Podcast with Stoeger and Isaac Lockwood, a USPSA CO GM who's also an active cop in far northern California. Good discussion of performance based training, and the problems with LE Firearms training in most places. I'm intimately familiar with that struggle. Spent 4 years fighting that battle. Now that myself and the M class shooter on our staff are both retired, everything has gone back to the comfortably lazy red shirts standing behind the shooters saying "Front sight! Preeeeessssss...." or yelling "Stop slapping the trigger!"

    Lockwood did mention the 80 hr time limit for most Academy programs today, and the limiting issues there. But all 3 agreed they would spend those 80 hrs (which after testing and shotgun training is actually closer to 40-50) differently. I would've loved to sit down with those guys with a notebook and asked "okay....here's the schedule. How would YOU use this time?"
    I would love to hear that too.

    Totally different lane, but I find that a lot of people in my world that think they know how a training program should be structured actually are super far off, and when they have one particular aspect of the job that they are most interested in personally or as a hobby they tend to over-prioritize that section (perhaps subconsciously).
    Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.

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