Competition gets you killed on the streets.

[BehindBlueI's]

Threads like this one make me very pessimistic about "tactical" gun forums in general. It's astonishing that this crap is still being discussed...

I once mentioned to a professional writer I wasn't interested in a monthly gig because how many times can you write the "Is your j-frame enough" and "Glock vs 1911" article. He told me how many thousands of people buy their first gun each month and this is all new to them. He's right. It might no longer be worthy of being discussed to certain individuals because we've already discussed it in the past to our satisfaction, have a wealth of knowledge and experience to draw on, etc. For many others, they don't have that background, experience, and knowledge so there IS a reason to discuss it because the whole concept is brand-fucking-new to them or they have no experience in the realm and believe IDPA is "training for the street". Surely I'm not the only who meets these people, and *of course* nobody will admit they might have once been that person when they were brand-fucking-new.

I'm always vaguely surprised when people come to a forum, a site that exists solely to discuss things, then wonder why things are being discussed. If the thread or discussion doesn't interest you or doesn't apply to you, it's pretty easy not to have to sort through it.

[cheby]

I'm always vaguely surprised when people come to a forum, a site that exists solely to discuss things, then wonder why things are being discussed. If the thread or discussion doesn't interest you or doesn't apply to you, it's pretty easy not to have to sort through it.

Sorry. I guess I am just a little cranky this morning. It's been a long week. Let's go back to regular programming.

[Mr_White]

It's interesting to me how my own interests have meandered over time. I was very much a straight up tactical guy for a long time. Then I became more aware of the depth of technical skill I could have if I was willing to throw off preconceived notions about competition and work for it - and how that technical skill could work synergistically with the tactical game I had developed up to that point. So I worked hard on those technical skills.

Over the last year, life has been busier and my interest has shifted to some extent back toward the human dynamics/tactics end of the equation. Technical skills have basically been on maintenance. I'm attending to them more again now. There are a lot of parts to the whole we are trying to put together, and we need those parts if we want the whole to be greater than the simple sum of the parts, so to speak.

Maybe this is overly simplistic, but improving technical skill expands the envelope of physical circumstance in which we are likely to win the fight. Improved awareness and tactics allows us to manage the physical circumstances/human dynamics and thus cause the fight to exist within our envelope of technical skill. So much the better if that also constitutes a denial of the envelope the adversary is dependent upon to have any likelihood of success (distance is your friend, as an example.)

It's great if the adversary doesn't even recognize that we were drawing a gun and is initially puzzled at us now suddenly holding a gun in our hands and firing it at him. That can happen from misdirection and tactics, and it can happen because from the moment he saw us start to move, it was .5-.75 seconds later that the bullet was leaving the muzzle and headed for his dome. Maybe both parts together can add up to him not even reaching the point of being puzzled - we got him to look at the wrong thing, he maybe barely saw us twitch, and he doesn't even see us fire the shot that stops him. Or maybe in an example of a more far-afield but still possible circumstance (active shooter), the adversary doesn't even get to square one against us because we denied them easy line of sight in our approach, only allowed a sliver of exposure, and then we wilted him down quick with high chest hits at 39 yards, or a shot straight to the dome, and he never even saw us. And if he did see us, he's at a massive marksmanship deficit under the circumstances, and we are not.

Training scars can come from anywhere if something is done to the exclusion of everything else. We're unlikely to develop tactics and learn to work over human beings who possess eyes and brains from competition against paper targets. We're unlikely to develop nearly as much technical skill without the motivation provided by the competitive pressures of an open and honest technical skills contest that we care about. And if we are private citizens who have to actively seek out opportunities to perform under some level of pressure because we simply will not accumulate them through professional experience, we're missing out on a massive amount of those performance-under-some-level-of-pressure opportunities by forgoing competition.

All this to say, I love shooting and tactics so that good people can protect life! Competition is an important way of furthering that pursuit.

[Zincwarrior]

The Shooting incidents in the news thread has over 4300 posts. I didn't read every single one of them but it doesn't seem like there are a whole lotta dead victims that sound or look like the typical USPSA/IDPA shooters getting killed in the street.

IMO people train/practice diligently monthly or more will probably be OK. The people that shoot a qualification a couple times a year, or shoot at a indoor range with no time limits, might see some upside from more frequent match shooting.

This is just an opinion from somebody not really qualified to speculate.

No there's a reason. Because of these threads, prudent competition shooters have learned that we can't shoot anything without a timer. To work around this, a prudent competition shooter will carry a timer at all times. When the bad guy shows up, the prudent competition shooter will hand over the timer and ask the bad guy to push the big button for him (or her). Remember, four warned is to have four arms!

[GJM]

My wife, despite decades of shooting, and at a high level, started shooting USPSA matches mid May. She rock climbed for years, was a sponsored mountain bike racer, has shot Cape buffalo and brown bears, and flown over 12,000 hours — all a way of saying she is no stranger to difficult pursuits.

Even with that experience to draw on, she reported feeling extreme nervousness at USPSA matches. Worried about doing something dumb or unsafe, worried about doing badly, worried about forgetting targets, worried about remembering the fundamentals once the timer went off, worried about Taadski lurking her scores on Practiscore.

She also reported how demanding USPSA was, compared to practice, because you get just one attempt, no mulligans, even if you didn’t understand the course of fire, or your equipment malfunctioned. This completely changed the character of her practice sessions, with a major focus now on durable, repeatable, on-demand skills.

[Dagga Boy]

I know better.................but I figured I m grumpy this morning, so what the hell. I ll type in caps so folks will get it....COMPETITION IS NOT THE PROBLEM! It is ALL competition. If for one minute folks don't think the street is competition you are purely wrong. When I got to play fast draw in a bar with a guy drawing from appendix at close range, it was competition, with some very serious issues for whoever took second place in that match (which is why I had mine out before the "buzzer"). Want to know what gets you killed? Using sport shooting tactics in a non sport combative environment. That gets you second place. Having no technical shooting ability in place when you need it gets you killed. Having great technical skills and no mindset and tactics skills gets you killed. Thinking sport is tactics gets you bad habits that gets you killed. Having bad habits from not understanding what "good shooting" really is gets you killed. Police administrators have gotten far more "killed on the street" with "No Cop Left behind" qualifications that they think is "training" than any "competition" issue ever has.

I don't "sport shoot" much these days and have not in many years. That will likely change as time constraints change in life to have more time to shoot sporting competition. I "compete" any time I can on the range.

Now if folks want to discuss what I think "bad habits" are that could be negatives in a Use of Force encounter, that is a discussion all its own and has nothing to do with "competition". Those bad habits are spread fairly equally through both the "play" shooting world and the supposed "combat" shooting world.

[ST911]

Want to know what gets you killed? Using sport shooting tactics in a non sport combative environment.

Now if folks want to discuss what I think "bad habits" are that could be negatives in a Use of Force encounter, that is a discussion all its own and has nothing to do with "competition".

Please, say more.

[Stephanie B]

^^^^^ This.

[wvincent]

Please, say more.

Yes, please do. @Dagga Boy, you're already set up up for a two book run. Book One, "Fighting Revolver's, The Coffee Table Edition"
Book Two, "Shooting and Fighting for Real Life"

I'll buy them both, just take my money.

[Jeff22]

"Using sport shooting tactics in a non sport combative environment. That gets you second place. Having no technical shooting ability in place when you need it gets you killed. Having great technical skills and no mindset and tactics skills gets you killed. Thinking sport is tactics gets you bad habits that gets you killed."

Well spoken!!!