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Thread: Competition gets you killed on the streets.

  1. #181
    Wag more, Bark less RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cor_man257 View Post
    At the moment I have dryfire and matches. No practice range. There is a drainage area nearby where I can go shoot, but getting any actual training done would be unlikely.

    I've only been to Hernando and WAC for ranges, and it was for matches. Guy from work goes to shooter world and likes it. So I might try it eventually.

    I really want to find a range that doesnt cost a fortune and lets me practice draw. Havent found it yet. Eventually going to try to buy land and build a range, but thats more than a few years out.

    I was kilt in the streetz 3 times today.

    -Cory
    Iíve been a member of Shooters World previously. Itís pretty nice. I am hoping to get there this Sunday morning to blow off some cobwebs, in fact.

    I believe they might be doing indoor Ďmatchesí there now, but Iíll have to look into it.
    "Don't f*** with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." --BehindBlueI's

  2. #182
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Competition gets you killed on the streets.

    There's no doubt that USPSA & IPSC have greatly advanced handgun shooting and technology. They are also an excellent testing ground for equipment. It's interesting to observe what doesn't work and why. Over my years in the sport, strong patterns have emerged that have informed my decisions about what guns I trust as life-safety equipment.

    For example, at a match yesterday, yet more 1911s failed in ways that could get you killed in the streets. And, there was a guy there shooting Lim10 with a Sig 220 .45. He had a mag over-insertion issue that required two people to remedy. A few matches ago another guy had the dreaded mag over insertion in his p320 Legion, which bent the ejector.

    Anyone else have observations worth mentioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Today I shot a local match that was Single Stack themed (I didn't shoot that division). The Single Stack shooters there desperately needed to read this thread on keeping their 1911 running. I have never seen so many malfunctions at a USPSA match. On my squad, we had guns from Atlas, Dan Wesson, Sig, a full custom, and others I didn't pay attention to--in 9mm and .45. Not one single gun had fewer than 5 malfunctions, and most had far more.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  3. #183
    Site Supporter Cory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    There's no doubt that USPSA & IPSC have greatly advanced handgun shooting and technology. They are also an excellent testing ground for equipment. It's interesting to observe what doesn't work and why. Over my years in the sport, strong patterns have emerged that have informed my decisions about what guns I trust as life-safety equipment.

    For example, at a match yesterday, yet more 1911s failed in ways that could get you killed in the streets. And, there was a guy there shooting Lim10 with a Sig 220 .45. He had a mag over-insertion issue that required two people to remedy. A few matches ago another guy had the dreaded mag over insertion in his p320 Legion, which bent the ejector.

    Anyone else have observations worth mentioning?
    Wow, long time since I started this thread. It really shows PF's influence. I didn't know what I didn't know. Learning has occurred.

    As far as observations worth mentioning, since starting competition I've seen 1911s go down a few times now. I can also say that as equipment goes... I've seen that it matters to a point. Good enough to depend on is important... but having the highest dollar wiz bang stuff doesn't create skill. Shooting competition doesn't make a suddenly great competition shooter.

    That's not ground breaking stuff, but it gets hammered home nearly every match I go too.
    Last edited by Cory; 02-28-2021 at 03:28 PM.

  4. #184
    vaccinated & maskless fatdog's Avatar
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    Central Alabama
    -Taurus guns, no matter what the model or caliber, are never to be trusted.
    -If your gun's trigger reset is too long, you might start to trigger freeze when the heat is on (ParaOrd P-18LDA, Browning HiPower, too many others to mention)
    -All that Zev trigger and striker/firing pin block crap, tungsten guide rods, lighting strike parts, etc. etc. may have made your glock easier to shoot, but the malfunctions or light strikes you had to clear on 3 of the match's 6 stages today took away any perceived advantage you thought you had
    -STI/SVI magazines are beyond finicky and never stay tuned forever
    -Your Deltapoint pro is going to fail and die in the middle of a stage some day (and the Tasco Propoint, Dockter, etc. before those)
    -Your extended 140mm Glock mag(s) for the G35 is going to let you down at some point even if you keep changing the springs
    -That fiber optic in your front sight is going to break, separate, and disappear in the middle of a stage some day
    -That tiny Kahr or your G43 is easy to carry and maybe you can even get hits with it, but when it gets to the bug match, that tiny grip is quite difficult to acquire quickly with a good firing grip under pressure
    -that Gen1 S&W M&P 9 or Pro is costing you points because it cannot group, even with your aftermarket barrel
    -If you did not change the battery in your C-more (and many others) last night, it is going to fail in the middle of a stage today
    -If you did not remove the base bulge from that .40 brass you picked up, it is not going to chamber
    -If you do not chamber check every round you intend to shoot in the match today, one will not chamber, in the middle of a stage
    -If you did not lube your steel frame gun, all models, today or last night, or right after it was cleaned before this match, it is going down some time today
    -If you have not cleaned your 1911 after 300+ rounds, it is going to go down today on one stage
    -Don't ever put a partially loaded mag back on your belt, ever
    -Wow that is one of the best revolver triggers I have ever felt, a shame you lost today because you had at least one light strike on every stage and two on a couple of them
    -Wow, sorry you got DQ'd because that 1911/2011 discharged when you...flipped off the safety, or the hammer followed during load and make ready, or...but that is a really nice trigger job
    -You don't remember when you changed the recoil spring or if you ever have?
    -You thought those magazine springs were good for a lifetime?
    -You did not know that polymer base pads on a steel magazine were not meant to be dropped on the concrete if the magazine is loaded?
    Last edited by fatdog; 03-01-2021 at 07:55 AM.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykcor View Post
    Spam.
    This has been around for around for a while. But more to the point how does this relate to the thread topic which is how competitive shooting enhances or detracts from performance in tactical applications?
    Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 03-20-2021 at 09:55 PM.

  6. #186
    Wag more, Bark less RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    ...one standout thing that I think competition - I'm thinking of USPSA here - does overwhelmingly well, is force the shooter to improvise in the face of limitless physical variations of targets, space, and barriers. Because the plan doesn't usually work out exactly as intended and adjustments have to be made on the fly. And with a lot of task-loading going on too, due to the overall complexity and round count of a lot of practical shooting stages.
    Like a fine red wine, aging in the cellar, this post by Gabe.


    I looked back at it just now (after a very scance 13 matches, lifetime, because, you know life gets in the way) and there is so much truth in it.

    It is an abiding memory of most all of my USPSA matches that I arrive, ask to help where I can, then I take a quick walk through the stages and read the WSB. When my squad assembles after the match director's briefing, I find out where I am shooting in the order, then I have to quickly work out my "plan" for that stage. For stages where I'll have mag changes, I decide more or less which shooting positions I'm going to try and reload between. That is about all I have to do before SHOOTERMAKEREADYSTANDBYBEEEEEEEEPPPPPPP!!!!!!!

    I am pretty well fully task loaded with information and can get bare glances at the targets. It is about all I can do after the 50 IQ drop that takes place at the start signal to manage to actually draw my loaded gun, get a sight picture, and take the first shot. After that, things are a blur. I usually learn (after the fact) if I miss a plainly visible target, by the scorer rattling off "2 No Shoots" which is followed by a muttered "crap" from me. I'm not leaving steel standing much (no bueno) these days, but I can use my fingers if they number less than 10.

    Even as a pretty poor USPSA shooter (high D in P) I find it really stimulating, all the same. I'm not finishing DFL anymore, but maybe 2 to 3 above, so that's progress.

    Not to rag on IDPA, because any shooting sport where people are on the clock is great, but I've read the rules, and watched a few stages, and the whole rigamarole where apparently you have to shoot it "this way" and you have to use "cover" and you have to engage targets in "priority" order means I don't have the flexibility to solve the shooting problem, my way (good or bad). Plus I don't own a vest.
    "Don't f*** with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." --BehindBlueI's

  7. #187
    Lowly Production C-Class olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I don't have the flexibility to solve the shooting problem, my way (good or bad)
    This is far and away the biggest problem with IDPA in my view. On some level, I like anything that's a shooting challenge, but well-crafted USPSA stages also provide a puzzle/optimization problem to solve, and that aspect is a big chunk of the appeal for me. I'd probably still do it without that, but having experienced it with the puzzle solving element, I'm sure I'd feel like I was missing out if that part went away.

  8. #188
    In a perfect world, my wife and would prefer to view stages the night before, then arrive early enough to spend more time the morning of the match.

    The walk through starts by locating all the targets, then considering different ways of addressing the targets. After the plan is loosely set, we focus on how to address targets within arrays, consider entries and exits, merge targets when possible, then consider how to place our feet to get the ideal shooting stance. We can spend hours on stages and it is nearly as much fun as shooting them.

    While shooting faster is good, it is a points per second game, and it is easier to save time on all the other stuff besides pressing the trigger. On trigger, lately I tell myself to press the trigger without rushing, and that usually results in more points and less time.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #189
    I try to do the same as GJM. I will say that IMO USPSA when shot well does not involve improv. The vast majority of what I do on a stage is pre-programmed before the beep and the only things I really react to are my dot movement, called bad shots, or steel not falling.

  10. #190
    Site Supporter JCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    I try to do the same as GJM. I will say that IMO USPSA when shot well does not involve improv. The vast majority of what I do on a stage is pre-programmed before the beep and the only things I really react to are my dot movement, called bad shots, or steel not falling.
    When I heard Steve Anderson say you should visualize a stage 20 times before you shoot it I realized I was doing something wrong with my approach of run to this spot and shoot everything you see and then run to this spot and shoot everything you see haha.
    SDG

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