Long range classifiers and the 6 reload 6 drill at 25 yards

[LSW]

I know there are a lot of drills out there, just curious what people might've found most beneficial for long range classifier type stages?

I recently struggled with the IDPA classifier, failing to make expert by about 10 seconds in the CCP division. I was not very accurate on the 15 and 20 yard shots, and while I hit the targets, I received about 15 points down on the stage at those ranges, destroying my score (a few -3, a lot of -1)

I find that on a 25 yard 6 reload 6 drill (3 targets spaced 2 yards apart) it takes me at least 25 seconds to 100% ensure a "down zero" run. Even then there can sometimes be a flier in the C/-1. On pure weapons manipulation I can do it in 8 seconds, but will shoot half mikes. This is with an M&P 40 compact shooting .40 minor without concealment.

Since this is the kind of thing I see on classifiers, is it best just to keep practicing 6 reload 6 at 25 yards and see if improvement occurs over time? I haven't noticed significant improvement in the few weeks I've been practicing this. Occasionally I will get a good run (15 seconds with about 75% in the -0/A) but the next few will go right back to crap - 15 ish seconds with more than half the shots out of the -0/A. First shot from the draw is in the 3 second range, 1 second-ish splits, about a 4 second reload split.

Should I be considering a change to the sights on my pistol? It has factory installed S&W trijicon night sights, so short sight radius pistol with relatively fat front sight and a pretty wide rear notch. Should I consider modifying the six pound trigger? I have grown used to the trigger and don't really mind it, and don't wish to harm the reliability of the gun. Most likely I should just find more ways to address my lack of marksmanship at moderate pistol ragnes. Part of the frustration is that my -1/C's aren't consistently in the same part of the target. Sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes left, sometimes. right.

I have purchased a steel silhouette target and am considering practicing with it at 50 yrds as it would be roughly represntative of an A/-0 zone at 25 yds. Since I just have one of them I can't practice the transitions, but at least it would be a quick way to practice long range draw and fire without needing to walk down and look at targets every time.

Any suggestions appreciated.

[GuanoLoco]

First, simplify and break down the 12 shot drill into components.

You have the caability of making the shots in accuracy mode, but accuracy mode is unacceptably slow.

You need to practice in speed mode. You have to see and feel what it means to go fast. After some practice in speed mode, go back and test yourself. Chances are that your baseline for time has decreased.

Shooting at distance whn lening around cover adds a new dimension, making shooting more difficult, and tracking of the gun under recoi more challenging. This also needs ot be practiced without then with the lean.

Ben Stoeger's 2 @ 25 in 2 secs is an axcelnt drill.

Practicing JUST your fastest accurate splits at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 is a very interesting exercise.

The 2 reload 2 drill at 7 yards lets you focus on just that component.

I also find improcement shooting a 10 yard drll right before doing a 20-25 yard El Prez-like or 6 reload 6 drill.

[Lomshek]

I have purchased a steel silhouette target and am considering practicing with it at 50 yrds as it would be roughly represntative of an A/-0 zone at 25 yds.
Since I just have one of them I can't practice the transitions, but at least it would be a quick way to practice long range draw and fire without needing to walk down and look at targets every time.

Why make it hard on yourself? Turn a 3x5 on end so it is 5" tall and set it at 10 or 12 yards to simulate the 25 yard A zone and work on your speed and accuracy without having to walk at all until the targets are shot up. It's cheap easy and you can set up multiple targets.

[GJM]

I would consider getting something me MGM steel challenge targets with eight inch plates. They are relatively inexpensive, break down small, and use replaceable 2x4 sections for the posts. I am not an IDPA shooter but believe eight inches is the right size scoring area. Also get yourself some white spray paint, called primer/sealer.

Start at ten yards, and work your way back. The steel will give you instant feedback. Paint frequently so you can see your hits. Shooting fast and accurately is what makes this such an interesting game.

[BobM]

Would you use those MGM targets with a rifle?

[GJM]

Would you use those MGM targets with a rifle?

Not at 25 with 5.56, or they will dimple the steel. Better check with MGM on min distance.

[GJM]

I just checked the MGM site, and it didn't say minimum distance for rifle. Here is a link to the targets:

https://mgmtargets.com/steel-challen...und-target-set

These targets, along with some paper stands Taadski hooked me up with are my main practice targets.

[GuanoLoco]

It depends mostly on the velocity of the ammo. The hotter loads will absolutely damage steel (XM193, etc.). The lighter loads may or may not dimple steel at shorter than 100 yard ranges. Heavier bullets run a little slower and may help.

If you are reloading the solution is easy.

Pistol Caliber Carbine is another solution but the recoil isn't the same.

[JohnO]

IMost likely I should just find more ways to address my lack of marksmanship at moderate pistol ragnes.

Bingo! That is EXACTLY where I would concentrate.

When the distance to the target increases beyond 10 - 15 yards problems with sight alignment and trigger control that go unnoticed closer in become apparent. I find that many shooters get too concerned about their Sight Picture at the expense of Sight Alignment. At distance this will sink you. Do not sweat how well you are aligned (sight picture) to the target. Worry about the relationship of the front and rear sights and not disturbing the alignment when breaking the shot. Yes, you do need to be properly aligned with the target however once you get the gun on target just worry about sight alignment.

Performing constant focal shifts from sights to target and back will not help you. Believe me I know from personal experience. If I try and tweak my sight picture attempting to achieve that perfect X-ring hit, on average I will suffer, as opposed to putting the front sight on the Bull where I want it then accepting that is good enough and then perfecting my sight alignment and breaking a clean shot.

Go here and read about Angular Shift Error vs. Parallel Shift Error: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter2.htm Really make an effort to understand the difference between the two and go out and do some experimentation at the range. You want to get to the point where the light bulb comes on and you understand that a little wobble (Arc of Movement) in your hold is far less detrimental than misaligned sights (angular shift error). Accept the wobble! Concentrate on breaking the shot with the sights perfectly aligned.

Some (many) people think that the wobble they see translates to bigger and bigger error as the distance increases. That is only true with Angular Shift Error. If you maintain perfect sight alignment and only experience Parallel Shift Error the wobble that results in a 2" group at 3 yards still is a 2" group at 25 or 50 yards.

Get out there and practice. Stretch it out to 50 yards and work on tightening up your performance at 50. Then shoot a string at 25 yards and feel like you are cheating.

[GJM]

As a counter thought, I think trigger control still trumps sights at 25.