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Thread: So, I wonder...

  1. #1

    So, I wonder...

    Just got off the phone with a good friend up north. He is a new pistol shooter (but one hell of a trap/sporting clays shotgunner) who I told to quit dicking around and get some training. I recommended Tom Givens, but he could not get the stars aligned for that this year. About the only thing he could arrange, between his work schedule and the available classes that were within driving distance for him, was a three day class by a well-known and rather highly thought-of "trainer"... the questionable parentheses are because of what he just told me.

    Today was Day One of three. I had to ask him again what he told me, because I couldn't have possibly heard correctly. I did. 22 students; no... ZERO... AIs; almost ONE THOUSAND rounds in Day One.

    That's insane. My buddy got attention just a couple of times. He is quite unhappy that he dropped almost $700 in tuition, not to mention travel/lodging expenses, to stand there and teach himself. Of course, he is pretty much worn out tonight from all that shooting; with close to same amount tomorrow.

    Is that what the "industry" is devolving to??? The few classes I have been to since I retired were outstanding people like Tom, Louis Awerbuck, and Tiger McKee. Small classes, 10-12 at most, and ALL had at least one assistant instructor. One thousand rounds... over three days. The last one was two years ago.

    Now, if this guy was some shitbird who hung out a shingle with no creds, I would understand. This guy isn't, from most of what I've read in the past. But it looks to me like he's just in it for the bucks.

    No, I will not identify this guy, because I'm not there. But my pal has no reason to fabricate any information; I believe every word he said. He is an very experienced competitive shotgun shooter, who just recently became interested in handguns for CCW purposes. I told him he needed to learn how to handle/drive his piece before he got into the CCW world. Looks like I talked him into buying a pig in a poke.

    I'll say one thing... a lot of the so-called "Tier One trainers" that I haven't actually seen just fell off my suggest list. This is complete bullshit... 22 students in a basic class (and many of them nimrods), BY YOURSELF, with that many rounds per day??? Beyond amazing.

    .
    Last edited by LSP972; 10-18-2016 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    That experience sounds reminiscent of (now defunct) Alias Training; there were a number of reports of overbooked Alias classes (and I saw this first hand) before Alias Training folded up shop earlier this year.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  3. #3
    I work for a well known trainer (no, I will not say the name. We don't pay for advertising here). Classes of that size have, minimum, our main instructor and 1-3 adjuncts (and with that many students, generally 2) and at least 1-2 personnel (such as myself) that are tasked with student safety and monitoring students that need help. Also, 1,000 rounds on the first day in a "basic" course is bullshit.


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  4. #4
    Who is the instructor?

    I'd almost rather hook him up with a PF member and let them show him a few things at a range...
    VDMSR.com
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  5. #5
    Member Luke's Avatar
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    At this point all he can do is make the best of it. He may not learn as much as what he could with another better instructor, but if he's shooting 3k rounds in 3 days and running different drills he's gonna learn stuff no matter what. He will come away a better shooter.
    i used to wannabe

  6. #6
    Who is the instructor?

    I'd almost rather hook him up with a PF member and let them show him a few things at a range...
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  7. #7
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    I'd almost rather hook him up with a PF member and let them show him a few things at a range...
    Good idea. LSP, can you give us your buddies general location? Someone might be close enough to do some coaching.

  8. #8
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Wow. 22 students:1 instructor shooting a K rounds on day 1 sounds pretty nuts, and I know zip about training.

    It does kind of illustrate how hard it is to find good (value for money) handgun training. Even with forums like PF, and numerous public AARs out there, it is surprisingly hard to locate a geographically convenient instructor whose curriculum and training ability match up with your basic new shooter's needs.

    I'm sure the marketplace weeds this out, but few of us have $500 to blow on a class that doesn't do anything for our skill set other than burn ammo.

    I mean, I can do that at the range, and it's only $15 an hour.
    Last edited by RJ; 10-19-2016 at 08:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    At this point all he can do is make the best of it. He may not learn as much as what he could with another better instructor, but if he's shooting 3k rounds in 3 days and running different drills he's gonna learn stuff no matter what. He will come away a better shooter.
    Could try asking for a refund and leaving, too. If no one is coaching him he'd be a lot better off just taking that ammo and practicing on his own time.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    At this point all he can do is make the best of it. He may not learn as much as what he could with another better instructor, but if he's shooting 3k rounds in 3 days and running different drills he's gonna learn stuff no matter what. He will come away a better shooter.
    For a brand new shooter, I'd be more worried about forming bad habits that will be harder to break later.

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