So, I wonder...

[LSP972]

It's probably Tom.

If you were referring to Tom Givens, then you don't know the man.

I do. FWIW, I was an LE instructor for well over 20 years... Many of those years the FTU Supervisor, all for a large State Police agency with close to a thousand troopers, and several hundred other commissioned-but-non trooper ancillary hands... Not to mention what we called "the alphabet po-lice" (state ABC, state FM, state DPS, etc.) we were responsible for training/qualifying/etc.

My point here is, between all the training I personally conducted, personally observed, and the myriad of classes I went to, I learned how to tell the difference between an okay instructor and a good one. And I have never seen a better one than Tom Givens.

A few have been equal... But none have ever surpassed his ability, as far as I'm concerned. And him doing some of the insane bullshit my pal has told me about? I don't think so, Tim.

At any rate...for you just having to know, the villain here is Costa. And this three day basic pistol class began Tuesday, as I mentioned. Tomorrow he begins what I believe is a three day carbine class, at the same venue... which is somewhere in Ohio. My pal told me the location, but I forgot. He lives just east of Cleveland, and the place is within driving distance for him. So perhaps some of you sleuths can pin it down. Just don't bother on my behalf...

I have not yet heard from my pal regarding Days Two and Three. I'm really wondering what he is going to have to say.

.

[77grOption]

What a shame. All that ammo could have been put to better use. If the venue is OH, your friend would be well served by looking into TDI - Tactical Defense Institue in West Union OH. John Benner's place is top notch with plenty of excellent instructors providing individual attention & coaching

[imp1295]

As we all wait in anticipation I had a very similar experience through Alias with Jeff Gonzales. When he was able to see us his advice was pretty solid. However, this was a bit too far and too in between to spend 2 days, 1500 rounds or so and the price of admission and travel for me.

Live and learn. But Givens' format had it right. Tom, John and for the first one Lynn was there too for about 18 or so students. Besides, Karl Rehn was there to help as well. Literally the best training experiences I have had including over the last two plus decades in the military.

standing by...

[43Under]

As we all wait in anticipation I had a very similar experience through Alias with Jeff Gonzales. When he was able to see us his advice was pretty solid. However, this was a bit too far and too in between to spend 2 days, 1500 rounds or so and the price of admission and travel for me.

Live and learn. But Givens' format had it right. Tom, John and for the first one Lynn was there too for about 18 or so students. Besides, Karl Rehn was there to help as well. Literally the best training experiences I have had including over the last two plus decades in the military.

standing by...

I kind of felt the same about Jeff, although at least my class only had 16 students. He was okay, but I was underwhelmed

[Peally]

If you were referring to Tom Givens, then you don't know the man.

I guess I need to lay off the sarcasm in this thread. If we meet in real life you are going to end up cock punching me

[LSP972]

Sorry, dude; I really am.

I'm the one that needs to be punched.

.

[scw2]

Tom Jones. Always thought he was a suspicious mofo.

I thought this was some sort of joke about how Tom tricked people into paying for a class and bringing ammo to test the new gadgets he received from the factory. I remember he said he didn't enjoy shooting thousands of rounds in one weekend alone. What better idea than to pay other people to come and do the shooting for you, and supply ammunition to boot!

[Luke]

I knew it was costa.

[MVS]

I'm more of a coach than a teacher, (intentionally due to years as a part of SBG where we dove deep into the nuances of coaching v teaching), so my focus is on tailoring the instruction to each individual in that training session or course. I want folks to leave feeling as if the curriculum was built around them. Sometimes I achieve this, sometimes I don't.

So, honest question; I've run classes with 20+ people on the line or in the room. I didn't have an AI every time, was that a disservice to the trainees?

I'm also not a full time trainer type, I'm not depending on classes to pay my bills so I'm not marketing/promoting as if it's my job. If more than a handful of folks sign up for one of my classes it's a pleasant surprise not an intentional over booking. I want folks to walk away from a training session with me feeling they got more than they paid for, that they have material to continue to train on their own, understand performance points so they can self coach, and I genuinely hope that if/when I see them again they have taken the material to another level.

Well since you know I would tell you the truth, I will just say, it depends. I have never done a class with you that had that near that many people in it so I can't say for sure. A lot can depend on what level the class is and where the students are at.

I have been in Givens classes with 20 people but also with sometimes as many as 8 or so instructors including Tom and Lynn. Even on the road he usually will have some AI's which I am proud to say I sometimes get to do for him. IME 20 plus students with one Instructor is not ideal. Especially when you consider there are always a few "special" cases in the class and one or two bootlickers trying to take up the instructors time.

Btw, I. case you don't recognize the initials, it is Mike Swisher. Hope to train with you again soon.

[MVS]

I knew it was costa.

Yep. No surprise there.