Is there a location of reliable solid data that I can reference?
Is there a location of reliable solid data that I can reference?
Yes, our research, that of the FBI-BRF, and DOD, to name just a few sources...
For example: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....lf-defense-use
Here is a recent news article on this very issue: http://www.panews.com/2016/09/26/tex...aw-in-question
The general use of frangible ammo for duty use is GROSSLY NEGLIGENT except for very specific niche circumstances requiring the use of RRLP ammunition (ex. VBSS, GOPLAT, hazardous materials, etc...)
Last edited by DocGKR; 10-18-2016 at 12:35 PM.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
thank you.. looks like I have work to do
This will likely be an uphill battle, so be prepared to be in it for the long haul. You mentioned the company is owned by former LE guys.....my profession is not full of folks who know very much about firearms, and even less know anything about ballistics. Sadly, they are convinced they are experts by virtue of the fact that they carried a gun once. You will be challenging their self image, so proceed cautiously, and present the info as being from established experts in the field....not you.
Just a thought - have you looked on the ammo manufacturers own website to see if they themselves have disclaimers?Originally Posted by butler coach
Sinterfire seems to be the main name in frangibles. If you just must, you can get something claimed to be suitable. They offer:
"Special Duty hollow point ammunition is now available in the web store. Looking for home defense ammo with massive knockdown power that won't over-penetrate common household barriers? Look no further than SF Special Duty."
https://www.sinterfire.com/Shop/Ammu...0-SD.aspx?p=60
Claimed by a vendor vs. proven performance by valid independent test organization like the FBI-BRF are very different things...
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
I feel your pain on bad choices being made by "gun people" who only know what they read on the internet, or heard at the gun shop counter. My whole agency made the great leap backwards from perfectly serviceable M11s in 9mm, to P229R DAKs in .40, because our acting Secretary KNEW that 9mm would get us kilt on da streetz. Nevermind that we had literally limitless amounts of 9mm FMJ and JHP available, and we couldn't get .40 S&W anywhere on deployments (a major part of our portfolio at the time).
I shudder every time I hear someone in a gun shop talk about the "devastating" effectiveness of frangible ammo as SD rounds - because they saw the neighbor's Chihuahua get shot with one and "it ripped it apart."
Sometimes you can make progress. Don't be strident. Try to be as level-headed and professional as you can, and always remember you can't fix stupid, so don't get upset when you don't appear to be making any progress. Use the references Doc listed, and make a comprehensive position paper based on facts and studies.
And, best of luck
Looks like this loading defies the laws of physics.
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I did testing on frangible at my agency. We use it to put down injured animals, the theory is it passes through and then breaks apart on the hardtop. It acts like fmj on tissue. In fact I've shot it through wooden doors, pallets, sheet rock... It needs a hard surface like metal, rock, even glass to break apart.
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