The very best 380 acp ammo for self defense?

[Rex G]

I have seen anecdotes of some exotic .380 ammo causing such problems as blasting the extractor clear of a classic-design Walther's slide. To be clear, I cannot confirm or deny these anecdotes, but I think I would hesitate to use exotic ammo in most .380 pistols. I used Remington Golden Saber in my Colt Mustang, but finally decided I preferred DA pocket pistols, and returned to J-Snub usage. This was in the Nineties.

Little by little, I am running ammo through my Walther PPK/s, to make sure it is trustworthy. When it is deemed trustworthy with round-nosed FMJ, I will try various non-exotic loads, and rather than worry about best terminal ballistics, will carry what feeds reliably, even if it means carrying with a 21st-Century load in the chamber, and much more mundane ammo in the magazine.

Why a classic Walther? Well, mostly, because the PP and PPK/s fit my hands very well, and the muzzles seem to tend to stay on-target during the long DA stroke, which is not true, in my long (though narrow and slim) hands, with many compact pistols. Many narrow, compact pistols tend to shift in my hand, when shot one-one-handed, but a PP or PPK/s tends to remain stable. (I reckon that if I am using a hide-out gun, it may be because I have been hit, and perhaps one hand or arm disabled.)

I think Glock may have finally gotten all of the bugs worked-out of the G42, and may try one.

Edited to add: I consider a .380 to be a tertiary weapon, perhaps secondary. I can usually manage to have a 9mm +P or .38 Special weapon on or about my person.

[Chuck Haggard]

Speer Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, Federal Hydrashock, or the highest quality ball ammo I can find.

The listed JHPs tend to open up minimally, if at all, and thus still penetrate to a decent depth. Not great, but OK IMHO.

Other than that all of the other various JHPs over expand and under penetrate. Nope.

The 100gr Black Hills FMJ mimics a no longer made Hornady loading, which interestingly enough was tested under the original FBI testing series. It wasn't a service pistol, but it did shockingly well.

[TiroFijo]

Speer Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, Federal Hydrashock, or the highest quality ball ammo I can find.

The listed JHPs tend to open up minimally, if at all, and thus still penetrate to a decent depth. Not great, but OK IMHO.

Other than that all of the other various JHPs over expand and under penetrate. Nope.

The 100gr Black Hills FMJ mimics a no longer made Hornady loading, which interestingly enough was tested under the original FBI testing series. It wasn't a service pistol, but it did shockingly well.

Thanks!

Do you have any experience with BB 100 gr hard cast FN?
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=216

There is also a "+P" version:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=127

Perhaps for a pistol like a G42 (light, but locked breech) or even better a more rugged G25 (it's blowback, but the slide is heavy and the barrel recoils too).

[Velo Dog]

Do you have any experience with BB 100 gr hard cast FN?
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=216

[Velo Dog]

The .380 ACP is limited by its small case capacity, short overall length, and low SAAMI approved operating pressure. Its projectiles will always be either too short and light or traveling too slow for ideal performance. Think of the .380 as a relatively powerful .32 Auto rather than a mini 9mm Luger.

[Flintsky]

A solid, non-deforming projectile is.......a solid, non-deforming projectile. FMJ, CP, TMJ, Hardcast, particle coated........what ever. They all pretty much do that same thing which is make a hole in tissue the size of the bullet diameter with minimal terminal effects. In Duncan MacPherson's book on projectile shape effectiveness, the two non-deforming projectile shapes that cause the most tissue disruption and tearing are a full wadcutter, or a sphere. All other bullet shapes cause minimal damage during the bullet's flight path(this includes round nose, semiwadcutters, truncated cones,.....etc.) They all equally suck.

As other wise posters have said.....the .380acp is a dead-end cartridge. It has little hope of technological improvements to make it more than an ice pick, or a shallow penetrating JHP. Yes, people die from ice pick wounds, just as people die from being shot by a .380acp. I have seen first hand a number of homicides where people have died quickly from .22lr hits to vital areas. I have also seen .380acps fail to penetrate a regular store-front window, fail to penetrate a person's rib cage, and bounce off someone's head when the hit was almost directly a center forehead hit with little deflection angle(a common problem that Dr. Roberts has observed with the .380acp, and even the .45acp). On the other hand, standard service sized calibers have a much better tissue and barrier material penetration record in the field and in the lab......along with the very desirable ability to expand and cause measurably more trauma. I suppose there might be circumstances where mouse calibers might be useful, but why use the "less than minimum" when lives are at stake?

[TiroFijo]

As an experienced reloader and shooter, that was NOT helpful... firing a 380 out of a 9 mm so it will not blow my head off? Pleeeze....

There is also a std. pressure 380 BB hard cast load.. A non expandign bullet (hard cast, FMJ, etc.) that has more mass and velocity penetrates more, that's obvious.

The G25 is very rugged, I would not be very wary of pressure and recoil impulse, my original question was directed more towards reliability, accuracy, etc. and if any SME thinks that added mass and velocity in a 9 mm caliber bullet (above the 380 level, or 38 spl std. pressure in a snubby) really adds something meaningful for self defense. In my country we can own any caliber, but there are many countries in latin america where civilians are allowed only up to 380/38 spl.

People think the 380 is a pipsqueak, even with FMJ bullets. Yet we see that it penetrates plenty in soft tissue, A LOT really in this versión. I bet the std. pressure BB load with the same bullet also penetrates a lot.

[Velo Dog]

Both the standard and +P versions are tested in the video.

Buffalo Bore +P loads have caused premature slide lock in the Glock 42
https://youtu.be/LskihWv3ALw
Very, very few people from the U.S. would have any experience with the Glock 25.

[Chuck Haggard]

I note that some RN FMJs tend to yaw somewhat to very reliably.


Note that 100gr Black Hills I spoke of earlier. It's not an uber bullet, but IMHO a sideways or backwards .380 bullet is better than a RN staying forwards.

http://www.black-hills.com/wp-conten...rel-6-3-13.jpg

http://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-...380-automatic/


Ref "+P" .380s, again, IMHO, trying to turn a .380 into a 9mm means you need a 9mm pistol. The the two reasons to use a .380 are so you can carry something the size of an LCP, or because you can't handle the recoil of guns such as the Glock 43 so you carry a 42 instead. The hotter than standard loadings just compromise reliability, badly.

[abu fitna]

Why a classic Walther? Well, mostly, because the PP and PPK/s fit my hands very well, and the muzzles seem to tend to stay on-target during the long DA stroke, which is not true, in my long (though narrow and slim) hands, with many compact pistols. Many narrow, compact pistols tend to shift in my hand, when shot one-one-handed, but a PP or PPK/s tends to remain stable. (I reckon that if I am using a hide-out gun, it may be because I have been hit, and perhaps one hand or arm disabled.)

I think Glock may have finally gotten all of the bugs worked-out of the G42, and may try one.

Edited to add: I consider a .380 to be a tertiary weapon, perhaps secondary. I can usually manage to have a 9mm +P or .38 Special weapon on or about my person.

Points for style. But now any way one can carry a PPK one can easily match with a Glock 43, bypassing the entire Kurtz calibre debate and getting commonality in the bargain.

I say this having been unfortunately stuck some places where 380 was the only option due to oddities of local laws. When one must rely on limited choices, you focus on the thing that matters more - shot placement. But if one can remove potential unhelpful variables, it makes sense to do so.

But to each his own. I definitely understand the appeal. Why I personally dont keep a PPK - or the lovely SIG p230 / p232 - in the safe. I might be tempted to carry the thing.