AR15 or AK47 ?

[Default.mp3]

I forgot to mention that an alternative to the Colt, that is of equal quality, though lesser known to folks outside the military is FN (Fabrique Nationale).

FN has been building AR/M16 type rifles for the U.S. military (as well as belt feds such as the M240 and M249)for many years, and are good to go right from the rack. I would not hesitate to grab either a new Colt or FN off the rack, and go to work with it.

What I've have been told about the FN is that they are not allowed to use their knowledge of the TDP to build their civilian guns; not saying that it's good or bad, just that it's not going to be the same line as their military guns. I've been hearing too many mixed reviews about FN (nothing outright bad, just little issues like missing staking or whatever) to say that they're civilian line is on par with Colt's.

[Lost River]

From the perspective of having spent time in both the Colt and FN manufacturing facilities, I would take internet stories with a large dose of salt.

Frankly, the FN facility is substantially more modern and organized than Colt.

Colt, while doing certain things very well, has been hurt by "union workers" in my opinion. An example of such is that I observed a significant amount of the workforce who appeared to be just "putting in their hours" and nothing more. It seemed like there was only a small percentage of the workers who genuinely cared. In other words, from my observation, 20% of the workforce who genuinely had pride in their work/the Colt name, and cared about the company was doing 80+% of the work, while others just occupied space. Fortunately those 20% truly make up for the slugs who were doing the absolute minimum possible.

FN on the other hand is a thoroughly modern facility, and everyone seemed to take pride in what they were doing. In fact, I would consider FN and Knight's Armament to be the top 2 outfits in regards to high quality manufacturing that I have personal experience with. Colt makes a truly excellent rifle, but it is readily apparent that they have not invested much in terms of upgrading their facility for quite a few years.

Of course that is purely one person's opinion/observation. Internet celebrities like "nutnfancy" and James Yeager may have a completely different view.

[ReverendMeat]

What I've have been told about the FN is that they are not allowed to use their knowledge of the TDP to build their civilian guns; not saying that it's good or bad, just that it's not going to be the same line as their military guns. I've been hearing too many mixed reviews about FN (nothing outright bad, just little issues like missing staking or whatever) to say that they're civilian line is on par with Colt's.

Disclaimer: I don't know shit about shit.

When FN AR-15s hit the market I was not impressed with the one (1) I saw that came through as a transfer. All I remember is an unstaked RE nut, which is a warning sign to me so I kinda wrote them off. Years later I get another couple (2) and they're comparable 1:1 with a Colt in every way I know how to check. Their 20" is really tempting to me but some of that is probably nostalgia, my M16s were all FN.

[Chuck Haggard]

I spent the weekend at my friend Buck Peddicord's range at Defense Midwest attending Mike Pannone's street and vehicle class.

Buck's range can be challenging in that the range surface is a mix of sand and concrete millings. A superb all weather conditions surface, but hard on guns and magazines.

The entire class was for the most part AR15s, with a Sig, Tavor and MP5K thrown in for fun. Very, very few issues from any of the guns, and those that had issues were the usual suspects.

My S&W Sport continues to run strong, even fed shit ammo from sketchy magazines. It worked better than one of my Aimpoint T1s this weekend as the rifle had no issues except one stoppage, with a Vietnam era magazine loaded with some 30ish year old Norinco .223 ammo, that was clearly magazine related, but the optic shit the bed on me (first issue I've seen first hand with any Aimpoints though...)

Properly built ARs are much more reliable and durable than people often think, and vastly more so than detractors will ever admit.

[GJM]

Review on Mike's class coming?

[Chuck Haggard]

Review on Mike's class coming?

Yes

[rob_s]

From the perspective of having spent time in both the Colt and FN manufacturing facilities,

Can you elaborate on what that time consisted of?

[Lost River]

Can you elaborate on what that time consisted of?

Yep.

Weeks/days a time of armorer classes (depending on the system) on various weapons systems such as the M203, M240, M249, AR-15/M16 series, M110 SASS, plus operator classes. Due to representing the organization that sent me to the facilities, and (I am guessing) bearing in mind the contracts, often the manufacturers give in depth tours, let people play with next gen concepts/gear, tour R&D, the usual stuff. In the case of Colt, check out the custom shop (which was actually a big cage).

One gent was working on a matched set of single action army revolvers for G.W. Bush. As I recall the serial #s were 1 GWB, and GWB 1, very intricate engraving. The guy said he had been carving on them for a couple years, off and on, in between other jobs. Pretty interesting.

The folks at K.A. were super nice, and allowed us to fiddle with some of the guns in the personal collection display room. If I recall right, we were told that a good chunk of the collection came from Colt, and was part of a deal in exchange for the All American 2000 pistol patent. Plus we checked out some of the next gen night vision. I had just flown in from the M.E., straight to Florida, and with my nights and days flip flop, was exhausted. The K.A. people were super accommodating. Genuinely great people.

[Duces Tecum]

I will say that my go to "ranch rifle" and "hog gun" is a modded AK47 in the standard 7.62x39.

Would it be fair to conclude that a 7.62x39 is a more effective round than a 5.56x45 for HD purposes?

[texasaggie2005]

Would it be fair to conclude that a 7.62x39 is a more effective round than a 5.56x45 for HD purposes?

I just read this the other day, and I thought it was interesting.

Why I'd rather be shot with an AK47 than an M4.