How to begin with a new shooter?

[Nephrology]

I'm not privy to that information. If they have a bright line, I've never personally witnessed it. The repeat offender today was so bad that I actually went to the ROs and tattled on him rather than waste my time (again) trying to deal with it myself (again) so instead the ROs talked to him (again) and then the very next thing he did was put his loaded gun down on the table pointed right at me. So I complained (again). And they told him to be careful (again).

There may have been threats of ejection with the final RO visit, however, because the offender shaped up and behaved the rest of the day until he was done, when he then muzzled everyone (including his shooting buddy) every time he put a gun away in his range bag.



Yes, you are.

This is also why I have become EXTREMELY selective with the ranges that I choose to patronize.

I was going to be bringing a few newbies shooting today (and fear not, I am over my new shooters like a hawk and take every one of their safety violations to be one of my own) but I learned that the range I wanted to attend was closed for a steel plate shoot. There are easily a half-dozen other ranges within the same driving distance but I had zero confidence in their ability to provide a safe environment, so I rainchecked. It is already nerve wracking enough for me to take newbies out to the range, I don't want to have to watch both their behavior and the other dumbasses as well.

[Le Français]

So with absolutely no intent to direct this toward Le Français or anyone else in particular, I just spent 90 minutes at the range reinforcing my believe that far too many unqualified people think "bring a friend to the range" is cool without ever giving a moment's thought to safety.

First, apparently there was a big gun show this weekend. If I'd known that, it would have been the final straw breaking my already weak motivation to hit the range today in the first place. The first day (Monday) and evening (Wednesday) that the range is open after a gun show is like a carnival of the absurd. I finally left after the fifth person pointed a gun at me. Fifth. Five. One two three four five people in an hour and a half.

Four of the five were either brand new shooters there to have fun with an idiot "instructor" whose idea of safety was little more than "I aint never shot nobody on accident." The other was a patron who, for the third time in a row, had to receive severe remedial attention from the range staff because he just literally cannot get it through his frakking head that pointing loaded guns at strangers on the range is BAD.

Wow. That's rough. This sort of thing makes me glad that my range is quiet, relatively rural, and has very few members. Plus, they are, for the most part, safe (and skilled) in their weapons handling.

Update on new shooter: I wish I had more experience teaching new shooters, because I do think I could have done a better job. Despite this, the session went very well. She started from the bench at 50 feet with a single shot .22lr rifle and iron sights, shooting at a 5 inch circle on a sheet of paper. She has had some limited experience with an air rifle, and, after safety instruction and a quick refresher on how to line up the sights (complete with multicolored diagram ), she put every shot inside the circle. We then moved to standing, and she had trouble keeping the gun steady, so I adjusted her grip and shortened the distance. After she was able to hit consistently that way, we moved on to my custom 10/22, with which she was very accurate. One inch groups at 20 feet became the norm with that gun, and I was impressed.

Next came pistols. I explained the thumbs forward grip, and the importance of having a high grip on a pistol. She started with a Ruger Mark II, and immediately was making hits on paper, followed by hits on clay pigeons as we moved to more reactive targets. It was her first time ever running a pistol, and already her grip was good and she was hitting clay pigeons easily at 20'. Just the sight of a brand new shooter with a proper grip on a pistol was enough to bring a smile to my face. That's not something you see every day. Because she was doing so well with the Ruger, I set up some clay pigeons and had her do a walkback drill, stepping back once every time she hit. She had clearly grasped sight alignment, because those things kept breaking.

After that, we moved on to a Glock 17. I made sure she understood that there would be more recoil, more noise, and a longer trigger pull than with the Ruger. Then I made a stupid mistake. That Glock has 2 dot night sights, and I told her to put one dot on top of the other to aim. She got confused and missed a few times. When she asked me to explain, I just told her to treat them like the Ruger sights, and, voilà!, she was back to hitting everything again.

As the sun set, we moved to a Beretta 21a in .22lr (not a beginner-friendly gun), and she was accurate with it at 15 feet. She stopped to tell me that, even though the sights were tiny, the front sight blade was very thin, and thus allowed precise aim. True enough.

We finished by the light of a Surefire flashlight, shooting the G17 until the darkness and the cold drove us back into the car.

All in all, it was great. Her performance was outstanding, and she was clearly delighted by the experience, expressing desire to continue shooting in the future. Thank you all for your help; I really appreciate it.

[Al T.]

Good stuff!

Had some new folks on the range today (75 degrees here ). I'm tough on safety and usually go over the four rules by having the new folks (adults) role play each and every one. (Thanks Todd!)

[MDS]

Been watching this thread with interest. As a relative noob myself, I don't have much advice to offer, but I do want to thank you for thinking this through and giving a new shooter the kind of positive introduction that is so rare. There are few things as satisfying to me as showing a new person how to safely and competently handle a gun, and then have them walk away smiling. Reading this thread was just as satisfying.

Good work!

[LeeC]

So with absolutely no intent to direct this toward Le Français or anyone else in particular, I just spent 90 minutes at the range reinforcing my believe that far too many unqualified people think "bring a friend to the range" is cool without ever giving a moment's thought to safety.

First, apparently there was a big gun show this weekend. If I'd known that, it would have been the final straw breaking my already weak motivation to hit the range today in the first place. The first day (Monday) and evening (Wednesday) that the range is open after a gun show is like a carnival of the absurd. I finally left after the fifth person pointed a gun at me. Fifth. Five. One two three four five people in an hour and a half.

Four of the five were either brand new shooters there to have fun with an idiot "instructor" whose idea of safety was little more than "I aint never shot nobody on accident." The other was a patron who, for the third time in a row, had to receive severe remedial attention from the range staff because he just literally cannot get it through his frakking head that pointing loaded guns at strangers on the range is BAD.

My wife and I were shooting from noon to 1 PM today at NRA HQ range. There was an incident down around the middle of the range where a senior patron yelled at some folks to his right to stop pointing their guns at him. An RSO was out a moment later to investigate the altercation, and the same senior patron told the RSO that he had already told these folks to keep their guns down range, but they just weren't getting it. The RSO went and spoke with the offending patrons for a few moments.

There was an incident that happened a few weeks ago that I hadn't seen before. I was down around lane 14 and another [undisclosed forum member] was reloading around lane 9. A very attentive RSO was instructing someone around lane 11 or so, facing down range. [undisclosed forum member] is reloading, facing his table with his back to the range, like I am. We both see someone around lane 6 decide that it is time to pack up, so he totes his naked rifle across the safety line, all the way across the room to a table in the back where his case is, to put it away. [undisclosed forum member] keeps looking at the RSO, like I am, thinking she's going to finish any second and see this guy, but she doesn't. No slight on her, although before this incident I was convinced that she actually DID have eyes in the back of her head because she doesn't miss much. [undisclosed forum member] was fortunately comfortable with tipping off the RSO so that she could remind absent-minded patron of basic range safety rules.

Last week I was just getting setup to start shooting, and a mature couple took the two lanes to my right. They pulled their tables a few feet behind the safety line, parallel to me, and start unpacking. They each stapled up a life-sized silhouette target that had "Department of Homeland Security" printed across the bottom. I'm thinking that they look fairly experienced, and they did shoot reasonable, medium pizza-sized groups at 3 yards and then 7 yards. But the lady takes her .45 SIG out of the case and puts it up on the table to start loading up magazines. At least the muzzle was pointed down range, but the slide was closed and a mag was in the well, six feet behind the safety line. I'm looking at the gun on the table and then at her, then back at the gun, thinking she'll get the non-verbal queue. Nope. Then I point out that she can't have a gun behind the safety line unless it is in a case or holster. Somewhere along the way, a dim light of recollection or deduction came on, and she pushed the table up halfway into the safe zone. I didn't see any hint of an "oops" response though. It was kind of strange.

So, I don't travel much and haven't been to a range outside the state of Virginia. But of the half-dozen or so ranges that I have been to, none allow handling of firearms outside the safety box. Are the rules different elsewhere, or do people just forget? Maybe they get some training and shoot for a while, but then don't go to a range for months (years?) and forget the basics? Maybe people need to "re-qualify" more frequently or at least be reminded. Gun safety posters?

[ToddG]

I don't worry about whether people are violating the NRA Range's rules. That's the job of the ROs. As long as muzzles are in safe directions, all the rest -- eye and ear pro, guns behind the line, loaded guns on tables people hitting walls, etc. -- isn't worth worrying about. I care about the four cardinal rules and as long as folks obey them, it's absolutely none of my business what they do.

[RangeDS]

I don't see it mention here yet...There are some incredible simulators in production and available now. Real firearms are modified to accommodate high quality laser and air operated functions. The look, weight, feel and function of the weapons are maintained but no projectiles to threaten. Target systems are calibrated to such high tolerances even an amateur shooter won't complain.

Instructors at the range we completed in Oct. '11 are using the simulator as a part of their curriculum now for classes like Handgun 101, Concealed Carry, etc.

Anyone interested in knowing about the manufacturers worth considering, PM me. I'll mention that the quality of the shooting simulators is now to a level that LE and military's around the world are buying these tools to train their forces too. Uruguay, Republic of Georgia, are buying these things by the dozens to catch up with the times. Thankfully they are in more several hundred U.S. Embassies and military installations around the world as well. ....anyway, shooting simulators are great for both beginners and seasoned shooters.

[HeadHunter]

When I teach newbies, I generally start them out on a BLUE GUN (or an empty air pistol) prior to getting to the range. I show them the basics of holding the pistol and moving the pistol from point A to point B.

This approach has proven to be very successful in the NRA classes I have co-taught. We were amazed at how much better the students shot when their first experience was with a blue gun as compared to even an empty real pistol.

[derekb]

This approach has proven to be very successful in the NRA classes I have co-taught. We were amazed at how much better the students shot when their first experience was with a blue gun as compared to even an empty real pistol.

Do you suppose this is because when you hand someone an empty gun, they immediately become uncomfortable, but when you hand them a blue gun they're not thinking about how dangerous it might be?