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Thread: Marines opt for the 9 mil over 45s for special operators.

  1. #61
    Regarding primary and secondary, if I could just hear what Roland had to say and edit out the other stuff I would listen a lot more. That guy is hilarious and has some great stories.

    The episode where they discussed front cocking serrations for 15 minutes straight was a turn off.
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  2. #62
    There was some good knowledge shared but I agree I too heard a whole lot of profanity and "dude". I get a little turned off when guys say there is 1 gun for you to buy and the rest are junk. The G19 is a great gun, does buying a HK VP9 and training with that and a Colt 6920 make you an idiot? Is the DEA stupid because they just selected the G17 as their duty issued sidearm? Would HSI be wrong to select the VP9? I can understand steering guys away from certain guns or manufacturers but their is only one gun for you to have and this is it doesn't bode well with me. Guys need to focus on training with A handgun and not jumping around. If that gun is a quality, reliable handgun then rock on in my opinion.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    There was some good knowledge shared but I agree I too heard a whole lot of profanity and "dude". I get a little turned off when guys say there is 1 gun for you to buy and the rest are junk. The G19 is a great gun, does buying a HK VP9 and training with that and a Colt 6920 make you an idiot? Is the DEA stupid because they just selected the G17 as their duty issued sidearm? Would HSI be wrong to select the VP9? I can understand steering guys away from certain guns or manufacturers but their is only one gun for you to have and this is it doesn't bode well with me. Guys need to focus on training with A handgun and not jumping around. If that gun is a quality, reliable handgun then rock on in my opinion.
    I think that's kind of what Roland was trying to say. People get caught up so much in "which gun should I buy" or "which gun is better" that they completely miss the point of having that gun in the first place. I don't think you would be an idiot for buying a VP9 over a G19 in general, but if you were to buy that gun and then never get training and just plink with it, then you're doing yourself a disservice. I'd rather a gun owner have useful tools with which they can be useful with than to have to have shiny plinking things with which they maintain their abysmal mediocrity if that.

    I don't care if someone has nice guns with which they only take to the range and nothing else. I hope to be able to afford things like that one day. But I think you should have useful tools that you can be useful with first and foremost.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    What we need is someone to listen to them, extract the gems of info, and publish the cliff notes version. Mostly I just heard a lot of "dude" and profanity.
    I've actually been listening to a lot of their stuff lately as I've recently discovered them. The "dude" and profanity doesn't bother me so much as there's a good chunk of my family that is military or retired .mil and some of them talk that way. Sure they're rough around the edges, but I'm sure my use of "big words" like troglodyte are a conflagration to their ears as well. I wouldn't mind doing a filtered cliff notes dump of their stuff for the PF crowd so that we can spread some info around.

  5. #65
    Profanity and "Dude" are not linked with lack of knowledge. I've spent plenty of time in my career in areas of pilot training or guns/tactics where it is par for the course. Tier 1 face shooters CAN have plenty of good knowledge to share. How it is disseminated is important.

    The clip I heard had a guy talking about buying a Glock 19 and Colt 6920. Then either a Glock 17, 34 or another 19. Quite clearly he states that's what you do. If you don't do that you are f#cking stupid. Then he continues in a the world is coming to an end, you better prepare yourself to assault sh#t as a civilian. It gets real wacky and most people are going to tune that out.

    If some dude is a doctor and makes $350,000 a year, is he an "idiot" for buying 3 of the same Wilson Combat 1911s, two HK M-4 style rifles and getting top shelf training on all of them? Any trainer or Tier I guy should be aware of his surroundings and good at shoot/no shoot scenarios. Dropping F bombs and dude while calling out anyone not operating your tool set is not conducive to instructing.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    There was some good knowledge shared but I agree I too heard a whole lot of profanity and "dude". I get a little turned off when guys say there is 1 gun for you to buy and the rest are junk. The G19 is a great gun, does buying a HK VP9 and training with that and a Colt 6920 make you an idiot? Is the DEA stupid because they just selected the G17 as their duty issued sidearm? Would HSI be wrong to select the VP9? I can understand steering guys away from certain guns or manufacturers but their is only one gun for you to have and this is it doesn't bode well with me. Guys need to focus on training with A handgun and not jumping around. If that gun is a quality, reliable handgun then rock on in my opinion.
    Re: Roland- The core message was Service pistol, Service rifle then a second Service pistol before you start buying stuff because fun/ cool / it was in XXX movie or video game.

    I don't think he is saying anything other than a Glock is junk. I carry Glocks for work and I own. VP9. The VP9 may be a better gun than the Glock but in the context of the original question asked the Glock has two, possibly three advantages. 1) the Glock is part of a "system" of guns so you can run common equipment for different purposes from the G43 to the 17L. You can get factory red dummy guns and blue sims / UTM guns. 2) The Glock is ubiquitous. You can find parts, mags, holsters etc all over the world. It may not be as much of an issue for you and I, at least right now, but ubiquity and the ability to be your own armorer were significant factors for Roland's old unit.

    Re: HSI - the updated solicitation for ICE pistols issued earlier this year mirrored the FBIs requirements and requires a push button style mag release eliminating the VP9.

    Re: DEA - when did they select Glock 17's ? Did they go gen3/4 or are they going with the 17M ?
    Last edited by HCM; 10-10-2016 at 12:18 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    Profanity and "Dude" are not linked with lack of knowledge. I've spent plenty of time in my career in areas of pilot training or guns/tactics where it is par for the course. Tier 1 face shooters CAN have plenty of good knowledge to share. How it is disseminated is important.

    The clip I heard had a guy talking about buying a Glock 19 and Colt 6920. Then either a Glock 17, 34 or another 19. Quite clearly he states that's what you do. If you don't do that you are f#cking stupid. Then he continues in a the world is coming to an end, you better prepare yourself to assault sh#t as a civilian. It gets real wacky and most people are going to tune that out.

    If some dude is a doctor and makes $350,000 a year, is he an "idiot" for buying 3 of the same Wilson Combat 1911s, two HK M-4 style rifles and getting top shelf training on all of them? Any trainer or Tier I guy should be aware of his surroundings and good at shoot/no shoot scenarios. Dropping F bombs and dude while calling out anyone not operating your tool set is not conducive to instructing.
    Well, he's alluding to that because there are several cities around the US that have actually exhibited people needing to use an AR15 to defend themselves and their homes and/or businesses (Ferguson, NC, etc.). So while randomly stating that you might have to "assault a fool" might sound wacky without context, it's really not. Considering that if either of the two "front runners" in this year's election actually make it into office, stuff might very well start getting hairier. People also seem to forget that the Founding Fathers started a revolution over far less shenanigans than what we're currently seeing today. I think the American people have gotten complacent and are slowly accepting more and more of the shenanigans that we see as "the norm" and any deviations from not accepting that "norm" are met with gasping, shock, and awe. IMHO, Americans need to start pushing back, and pushing back harder.

    If you're making low to mid-6 figures in your salary and you can afford to buy 3 Wilson 1911s and 2 HK M4geries and ammo and training to go with it, I think you'd be pretty well off. Again, I think you're missing the POINT of what he was trying to say. Roland doesn't care about the fact that he has a safe full of Glocks and ARs. He cares about what those Glocks and ARs do for him. He has a bunch of pistols and rifles that have common parts, maintenance, and manual of arms with which he can economically support easily and readily train others to use along side of him or independently of him should they be in a pinch and need it. Roland doesn't care about having a "collection", he cares about having a "tool set". If the ubiquitous pistols and rifles in this country were Walther PPXs and Steyr AUGs then I'd be willing to be that Roland would want PPXs and AUGs. But they aren't, so he doesn't. Glocks and ARs are essentially the safe "go-to" rifles and pistols in the US, so he does want those.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post

    Re: DEA - when did they select Glock 17's ? Did they go gen3/4 or are they going with the 17M ?
    Here's the link I found: http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...o-3421522.html

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinmove_ View Post
    Well, he's alluding to that because there are several cities around the US that have actually exhibited people needing to use an AR15 to defend themselves and their homes and/or businesses (Ferguson, NC, etc.). So while randomly stating that you might have to "assault a fool" might sound wacky without context, it's really not. Considering that if either of the two "front runners" in this year's election actually make it into office, stuff might very well start getting hairier. People also seem to forget that the Founding Fathers started a revolution over far less shenanigans than what we're currently seeing today. I think the American people have gotten complacent and are slowly accepting more and more of the shenanigans that we see as "the norm" and any deviations from not accepting that "norm" are met with gasping, shock, and awe. IMHO, Americans need to start pushing back, and pushing back harder.

    If you're making low to mid-6 figures in your salary and you can afford to buy 3 Wilson 1911s and 2 HK M4geries and ammo and training to go with it, I think you'd be pretty well off. Again, I think you're missing the POINT of what he was trying to say. Roland doesn't care about the fact that he has a safe full of Glocks and ARs. He cares about what those Glocks and ARs do for him. He has a bunch of pistols and rifles that have common parts, maintenance, and manual of arms with which he can economically support easily and readily train others to use along side of him or independently of him should they be in a pinch and need it. Roland doesn't care about having a "collection", he cares about having a "tool set". If the ubiquitous pistols and rifles in this country were Walther PPXs and Steyr AUGs then I'd be willing to be that Roland would want PPXs and AUGs. But they aren't, so he doesn't. Glocks and ARs are essentially the safe "go-to" rifles and pistols in the US, so he does want those.
    Exactly. This is what he was talking about when he said his guns safes now look more like an arms room than a collection.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ View Post
    Regarding primary and secondary, if I could just hear what Roland had to say and edit out the other stuff I would listen a lot more. That guy is hilarious and has some great stories.

    The episode where they discussed front cocking serrations for 15 minutes straight was a turn off.
    Forget Morgan Freeman, I want Roland as my GPS narration. " you missed that turn dog, flip a bitch and get back there"

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