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Thread: Electronic ear protection - current state of groupthink?

  1. #141
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelist View Post
    So, this happened today:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ustomerReviews

    I’m not very sophisticated on this stuff. I’m a musician, so I’ve always plugged and muffed to protect what is left of my hearing, and got my first set of electronics after I couldn’t hear a cease fire on the range one day. They’re Howard Leights, and they work, but I always wondered how much better the better ones are.

    These are so much better. I could probably stand to shoot some guns without plugs under. The electronics are better, the cups are better, the sound proofing is better. These are my new best friends.
    They look nice, and a great price too.

    Did you get the gel cups? I have to say the gel cups for my Sordins seem to make a big difference in comfort, what with them sealing better around my glasses earpiece than foam muffs.

    I’ve had the HL Impact Sorts and Impact Pros, and for the price point are hard to beat for occasional use. The Sordins were at the eye-watering end of cost but they work extremely well and very reliable.

    These Peltors with gel might be a great new mid range price alternative.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_Jenkins View Post
    They look nice, and a great price too.

    Did you get the gel cups? I have to say the gel cups for my Sordins seem to make a big difference in comfort, what with them sealing better around my glasses earpiece than foam muffs.

    I’ve had the HL Impact Sorts and Impact Pros, and for the price point are hard to beat for occasional use. The Sordins were at the eye-watering end of cost but they work extremely well and very reliable.

    These Peltors with gel might be a great new mid range price alternative.
    I did not get the gel cups. The cups that came on them fit better than the HL, and seal much better. I may well try out the gel cups, too.

  3. #143
    Hi Risk Customer Services
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Connecticut
    Another question RE: the new Liberators,

    I am in need of new electronic hearing protection. I have no need for an optional communications feature and the whole CR123 battery option means nothing to me. I don't plan on helmet mounting whatever option I choose either.

    I can get the Peltor Comtac III Hearing Deffenders or the Tactical Pros for less money and quicker shipping. Am I doing myself a great disservice by choosing one of these over the new offering from Safariland?

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey_Bravo View Post
    I can get the Peltor Comtac III Hearing Deffenders or the Tactical Pros for less money and quicker shipping. Am I doing myself a great disservice by choosing one of these over the new offering from Safariland?
    In theory, given the active noise cancelling aspect, the Liberator HPs can protect your hearing better and/or have better sound reproduction, particularly in constant high noise environments (e.g., sitting next to a car engine or in a flying aircraft), as the active noise cancellation reduces the constant noise, without blocking out more impulse-ish noises, such as gunshots or voice comms. Typical hearing protection only clips the overall sound level, which means that all basically run together, and can make picking out particular sounds difficult (a bit similar to the cocktail party problem, which is a significant unsolved problem in hearing aid design, where a user is unable to pick up specific conversations at a loud cocktail party due to all the voices running together: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_effect).

    Again, this is all in theory, and works only if the Liberator HPs live up to the hype.
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 04-23-2018 at 08:29 PM.

  5. #145
    Hi Risk Customer Services
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    Nov 2012
    Location
    Connecticut
    The thread over on AR15 was just updated. More negative feedback from the end-users.

    I got a good deal on some Peltor Comtac III Hearing Defenders. Felt this was also a pretty safe option and a quality, vetted, product.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey_Bravo View Post
    The thread over on AR15 was just updated. More negative feedback from the end-users.

    I got a good deal on some Peltor Comtac III Hearing Defenders. Felt this was also a pretty safe option and a quality, vetted, product.
    I’ve been following that thread since I received my Lib HPs a few weeks back. Ran them that wknd @ a steel match & they are on par w/ my DEHPs, perhaps better but it will take some more usage to determine that.

    That said the cat that posted the pics & initial feedback sure seems to have it in for the HPs, as do most in that thread, almost pre-judged IMO .......... whatever.
    Last edited by OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor; 04-24-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #147
    How is the Liberator getting active noise cancellation of an impulse like muzzle blast?
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  8. #148
    Hello guys, thought I'd pop in and chat with you all personally. I'm the guy that posted the Liberator HP thread over on AR15.com.

    Let's address something first: to OldRunner - I have no affiliation with Peltor, MSA, or Safariland. All gear I buy is paid for out of my own pocket, no one gives me this stuff for free, I am not paid to write positively and/or bash anyone. I'm just some schmuck, no one is paying me to do anything. Don't take this as some sort of confrontation, it's not. You implied I and other members of AR15.com have some ulterior motive and that is not the case. I have nothing personal against you and this is in no way intended as an insult to you or anyone else here, just wanted to clear the air.

    Anyone that read my thread will know my set did not ship ready to use CR123A batteries so that was a mark against Safariland right out of the box, then came the revelation after speaking with a TCI rep that the NFC feature is not ready for use. I'll admit I was a bit terse/crude in my initial postings but I wasn't exactly thrilled to learn my $223 (got it during the March sale) headset was missing critical features that were meant to make it revolutionary in the electronic earpro market. I have yet to receive the CR123A battery tray.

    On top of all that the sound quality is objectively worse than both my Sordins and Peltor ComTacs. How anyone can claim otherwise, unless I just got a lemon, is beyond me. I'd love to record the sound quality of each headset and post up a recording on YouTube but to do so properly would probably require something like a binaural microphone which given their cost is out of the question for me. The sound is flat, lacking in tonal depth, and puts wind/unwanted background noise right up front. The claims of superior sound localization fall totally flat, the HP is no better than the Sordins or ComTacs in this regard, and those headsets aren't great at sound localization to begin with.

    Depending on what exactly the NFC feature allows you to do, the sound quality could likely be improved. Actually, I know it can because strangely the headset actually sounds ok on "dual mode", with the standard impulse noise blocking and ANC on. However, in impulse only mode is where the sound quality falls apart.

    I understand a lot of police/Mil. users are excited about the HP as a comms headset, but as a casual/sport/whatever-you-want-to-call-it shooter sound quality is most relevant to me next to noise protection. I don't run or even posses any sort of comm equipment beyond bubble pack radios so the headsets potential as a comms unit is 100% irrelevant to me and will be for most shooters.

    Stacked up on top of all that we have the extremely poor manual (happy to post pics if you want to see what I mean) and lack of transparency on the part of Safariland in regards to several pieces of critical info like environmental resistance (waterproofing for example). The headset is supposedly waterproofed to 15 feet but the manual and product page still fail to make any mention of this, that was only seen in an early promo release about the Liberator IV/V.

    To hopefully answer Jim Watsons question, the ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) feature produces audible "bumps" of counter noise to combat steady-state sound. I'll admit to not having tested the headset in an appropriate environment to really test the ANC feature. How this feature helps with impulse noise like gunfire I don't know, I'm not a sound engineer. I'm guessing it it would help defeat other sound frequencies not combated effectively by more standard methods, theoretically aiding in upping the NRR for impulse noise. That's my guess anyway, wouldn't take it as gospel.

    If you guys have any questions about Sordins, ComTacs, or the Liberator HPs ask away. Happy to help and answer any questions I can. Feel free to request pics or any odd thing you might want to know about any of them.

  9. #149
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    West
    Quote Originally Posted by CAKEPWNER View Post
    Hello guys, thought I'd pop in and chat with you all personally. I'm the guy that posted the Liberator HP thread over on AR15.com.

    Let's address something first: to OldRunner - I have no affiliation with Peltor, MSA, or Safariland. All gear I buy is paid for out of my own pocket, no one gives me this stuff for free, I am not paid to write positively and/or bash anyone. I'm just some schmuck, no one is paying me to do anything. Don't take this as some sort of confrontation, it's not. You implied I and other members of AR15.com have some ulterior motive and that is not the case. I have nothing personal against you and this is in no way intended as an insult to you or anyone else here, just wanted to clear the air.

    Anyone that read my thread will know my set did not ship ready to use CR123A batteries so that was a mark against Safariland right out of the box, then came the revelation after speaking with a TCI rep that the NFC feature is not ready for use. I'll admit I was a bit terse/crude in my initial postings but I wasn't exactly thrilled to learn my $223 (got it during the March sale) headset was missing critical features that were meant to make it revolutionary in the electronic earpro market. I have yet to receive the CR123A battery tray.

    On top of all that the sound quality is objectively worse than both my Sordins and Peltor ComTacs. How anyone can claim otherwise, unless I just got a lemon, is beyond me. I'd love to record the sound quality of each headset and post up a recording on YouTube but to do so properly would probably require something like a binaural microphone which given their cost is out of the question for me. The sound is flat, lacking in tonal depth, and puts wind/unwanted background noise right up front. The claims of superior sound localization fall totally flat, the HP is no better than the Sordins or ComTacs in this regard, and those headsets aren't great at sound localization to begin with.

    Depending on what exactly the NFC feature allows you to do, the sound quality could likely be improved. Actually, I know it can because strangely the headset actually sounds ok on "dual mode", with the standard impulse noise blocking and ANC on. However, in impulse only mode is where the sound quality falls apart.

    I understand a lot of police/Mil. users are excited about the HP as a comms headset, but as a casual/sport/whatever-you-want-to-call-it shooter sound quality is most relevant to me next to noise protection. I don't run or even posses any sort of comm equipment beyond bubble pack radios so the headsets potential as a comms unit is 100% irrelevant to me and will be for most shooters.

    Stacked up on top of all that we have the extremely poor manual (happy to post pics if you want to see what I mean) and lack of transparency on the part of Safariland in regards to several pieces of critical info like environmental resistance (waterproofing for example). The headset is supposedly waterproofed to 15 feet but the manual and product page still fail to make any mention of this, that was only seen in an early promo release about the Liberator IV/V.

    To hopefully answer Jim Watsons question, the ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) feature produces audible "bumps" of counter noise to combat steady-state sound. I'll admit to not having tested the headset in an appropriate environment to really test the ANC feature. How this feature helps with impulse noise like gunfire I don't know, I'm not a sound engineer. I'm guessing it it would help defeat other sound frequencies not combated effectively by more standard methods, theoretically aiding in upping the NRR for impulse noise. That's my guess anyway, wouldn't take it as gospel.

    If you guys have any questions about Sordins, ComTacs, or the Liberator HPs ask away. Happy to help and answer any questions I can. Feel free to request pics or any odd thing you might want to know about any of them.
    Thanks for the review; appreciate the effort you made to post this here.

    How do you feel build quality compares to Sordins/ComTacs? I have a pair of Peltor Comtac IIIs that I am pretty enamored with, but my biggest beef is that the sound is relatively quiet when doubled up with foamies. It's a little better with surefire EP4s but still often hard to hear without mucking with the gain.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    Thanks for the review; appreciate the effort you made to post this here.

    How do you feel build quality compares to Sordins/ComTacs? I have a pair of Peltor Comtac IIIs that I am pretty enamored with, but my biggest beef is that the sound is relatively quiet when doubled up with foamies. It's a little better with surefire EP4s but still often hard to hear without mucking with the gain.

    Build quality in terms of materials and assembly is up to par, nothing to really complain about. The foam insert in the earcup is the same one used in Sordins and the seals are in fact interchangeable between Sordins and the Liberator HP. The only real difference between the Sordin seals and the HP seals is the HP seals are the stiffest (out of ComTacs, Sordins, and the HP) and they have an O ring on them. The stiffness is not a complaint and I actually quite like the way the HP seals feel, seem like they would be the hardest wearing. Nothing to really note other than that.

    In terms of doubling up with plugs the HPs suffer the same problem the ComTacs and Sordins do: they just don't get loud enough to overcome the plug. I've tried using Surefire EP7's with both cores removed and even that was a middling solution in all headsets. I've been told that the Earasers Musician Plugs serve well for this purpose but for $40 a set have yet to try them out.

    Bit of an aside, but on the subject of the O ring on the HP seals I theorize the purpose is to keep water out of the cup when being rained on but they may be trying to block sound that way. There is no O ring on the Sordins or ComTac seals so I'm wondering what the idea is.
    Last edited by CAKEPWNER; 04-30-2018 at 12:19 PM.

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