Week 183: Draw and Shoot Challenge

[JHC]

Impressions

1. The .40 slowed me down but I shot it most accurately with the fewest penalties. Seems obvious that the faster I shot the less my trigger press could keep up QUALITY-WISE with the increasing speed.

2. Concealed and warmed up made a bigger difference on the G19 runs than I expected.

3. My favorite observation - the crazy little G43 is pretty easy to shoot pretty well. It wasn't running too far behind some of those G19 scores.


Gen 3 G19 with KKM comp: 21.45 concealed, cold/chilly? 20.76 warmed up and Open OWB

Gen 4 G22 24.21

G43 21.59

[scw2]

Shot on 9/24. Used CZ 75 SP-01 from concealment, wearing a CCC Gestalt and a polo shirt. Used a FAST target since I didn't have anything else, and the USPSA target was a bit large for the 50 yd range.

Bill drill:
1) 1.71, 0.23, 0.23, 0.23, 0.22, 0.23 = 2.85 C
2) 1.34, 0.23, 0.22, 0.20, 0.23, 0.21 = 2.43 C

Fail to stop:
3) 1.59, 0.40, 0.58 = 2.87
4) 1.49, 0.30, 0.90 = 2.69 - 1B (due to bad grip and shooting anyways)

Two to head:
5) 2.04, 0.81 = 2.85
6) 1.41, 1.09 = 2.50 - 1H

4 to body, 2 to head:
7) 1.59, 0.24, 0.59, 0.27, 0.71, 0.79 = 4.19 - 1B - 1H
8) 1.48, 0.18, 0.25, 0.20, 0.64, 0.59 = 3.38 - H

Observations
-Draw is slow
-Need work on the shots to headbox, both on the draw and transitioning up. Some were shots pulled out of alignment, others were early shots during the up transition.
-The slow draw and issues on the head box was what led me to focus on draws the past week or so. Still need to do more work at some point on the up transitions, which I've done a bit on but not as much. Think that has carryover benefits into gaming since sometimes we got two targets vertically strung out.
-There isn't as much bias low and/or left on the body shots, which is good, but still can see some shots that went that way, so more work to clean up trigger press and strong grip.
-Got a 0.18 split on the body shot, which was a first I believe

[JHC]

Draw is slow? ???? That was some speedy stuff!

[taadski]

Figured I'd drop these scores in here. They were from my runs during Gabe's Pistol Shooting Solutions class last weekend. They were shot during the testing component over the course of the two days. There were some learning points that I thought folks could maybe benefit from.

I was using a duty holster; a Safariland ALS/SLS combo, level III rig shooting a 9mm Sig 226. The targets were USPSA cardboards with a round white head paster added.


Bills:
Run 1: 2.08 5A1C Total: 2.08
Run 2: 2.12 5A!C Total: 2.12

Failure Drill:
Run 1: 1.56 2A1C Total: 1.56
Run 2: 1.57 2A1M Total: 3.57

Two to the head:
Run 1: 1.87 2B Total: 2.12
Run 2: 2.16 1A1M Total: 3.91

Four body, two head:
Run 1: 3.10 6A Total: 2.85
Run 2: 2.95 4A2B Total: 3.20


Thoughts: I was pretty disappointed with my performance on the drill set as a whole. I think Gabe's test does a great job of looking at one's on-demand skills, and I faltered on a couple occasions with my visual patience, not letting things settle adequately. I was actually pretty worked up stepping up and trying to shoot these in front of the group. Much more so than I typically get shooting matches or doing work related demos, etc...

I've found that my vision over the last season+ has really been improving. I'm seeing what's happening as it's going on much more effectively than I used to. But shooting at these speeds, making adjustments mid-string just isn't an option. So if there's an error (like letting the gun overrun the head box transitioning from the body for example ) I'll pick it up visually as the shot breaks, but, obviously, by then it's too late.

Having time limits or pars has a tendency to push folks in this direction and I think it's a very positive thing for growth, IN TRAINING. The age old question is how adequately one can shift gears to JUST SHOOT THE SIGHTS when the pressure is on. [Big sigh]


t

[Mr_White]

Everyone - I really appreciate you all taking part in this particular DotW! Thanks for letting me see your datas.

Draw is slow? ???? That was some speedy stuff!

scw2 is hitting a bunch of sub-1 second concealed draws in dry practice right now, so if I were going to be so bold as to guess, I'd say he might be experiencing that dry-live fire gap that can be shocking at times. scw2 - keep driving and you are going to get where you're going for sure.

Figured I'd drop these scores in here. They were from my runs during Gabe's Pistol Shooting Solutions class last weekend. They were shot during the testing component over the course of the two days. There were some learning points that I thought folks could maybe benefit from.

I was using a duty holster; a Safariland ALS/SLS combo, level III rig shooting a 9mm Sig 226. The targets were USPSA cardboards with a round white head paster added.


Bills:
Run 1: 2.08 5A1C Total: 2.08
Run 2: 2.12 5A!C Total: 2.12

Failure Drill:
Run 1: 1.56 2A1C Total: 1.56
Run 2: 1.57 2A1M Total: 3.57

Two to the head:
Run 1: 1.87 2B Total: 2.12
Run 2: 2.16 1A1M Total: 3.91

Four body, two head:
Run 1: 3.10 6A Total: 2.85
Run 2: 2.95 4A2B Total: 3.20


Thoughts: I was pretty disappointed with my performance on the drill set as a whole. I think Gabe's test does a great job of looking at one's on-demand skills, and I faltered on a couple occasions with my visual patience, not letting things settle adequately. I was actually pretty worked up stepping up and trying to shoot these in front of the group. Much more so than I typically get shooting matches or doing work related demos, etc...

I've found that my vision over the last season+ has really been improving. I'm seeing what's happening as it's going on much more effectively than I used to. But shooting at these speeds, making adjustments mid-string just isn't an option. So if there's an error (like letting the gun overrun the head box transitioning from the body for example ) I'll pick it up visually as the shot breaks, but, obviously, by then it's too late.

Having time limits or pars has a tendency to push folks in this direction and I think it's a very positive thing for growth, IN TRAINING. The age old question is how adequately one can shift gears to JUST SHOOT THE SIGHTS when the pressure is on. [Big sigh]


t

Bunch of great thoughts in there taadski!

One thing I'm glad to see work out in the testing is that even with the modest .25 second penalty per shot, it's still enough that Bs and Cs are Not A Good Deal (weren't a good deal in any of my tests/demos either.)

There are definitely some practice and testing dynamics going on with all this. I think you are right - we have to push it in practice in order to get better, but must also have the discipline to HIT when the test is at hand, whatever that is. An eternal challenge I think. And I think the different training approaches different people take in dealing with that dilemma are interesting too.

[jdesro]

Shot this again today and tried to push for a bit more speed. I had a quicker time, but the speed is still something I need to work on.

S&W M&P 9mm, JMCK OWB holster, no concealment

USPSA w/ 3x5 index card

String 1: 2.95 + 1C +.25= 3.20
String 2: 3.03 no penalties
String 3: 3.38 no penalties
String 4: 2.61 + 1B +.25= 2.86
String 5: 2.91 no penalties
String 6: 2.79 no penalties
String 7: 3.96 no penalties
String 8: 3.97 + 1B +.25= 4.22

Total time: 26.10

IMG_0306 by LORI CHOQUETTE, on Flickr

[BaiHu]

G3 G19 in an earlier JMCK AIWB 115 gr S&B with a Q bottle, so the results will be a bit off given I didn't have a proper target.

Bill 1: 3.05 3A3C -.25 concealment = 3.55 (correct?)
Bill 2: 3.15 6A -.25 cclmnt = 2.90
F2S 1: 2.31 2A1C -.25 cclmnt = 2.06
F2S 2: 2.22 3A -.25 cclmnt = 1.97
2toH 1: 2.06 1A1C -.25 cclmnt = 2.06
2toH 2: 2.09 2A -.25 cclmnt = 1.84
4B2H 1: 3.36 5A1C -.25 cclmnt = 3.36
4B2H 2: 3.50 5A1C 0.25 cclmnt = 3.50

Thoughts:
1. Get a proper target. I think I was erring on the side of pushing more shots out if they weren't close to the Q or the T box, but I'm eye balling here.
2. I did better than I thought I would.
3. I really like these sets of drills.
4. I really hated my first Bill as I just hosed it so bad by mashing the trigger and nearly forgetting I had nubs on my slide.
5. I've been really satisfied with my draws to head or body lately. Hanging around 1.45-1.70 has really built my confidence on first shots.
6. I really need work on sight tracking. It's getting better, but I really notice it going awry when I need to transition up or down.
7. I wish I could go shooting where no one is on the range more often--I get more reliable data on my timer. Although I did have 2 or 3 runs I had to do over as I wasn't that slow or that fast, but I could tell an AR was throwing my timer off.

Please let me know if I scored the above right, as I wasn't sure where/when to deduct .5...

[Mr_White]

Looks right to me, except F2S 1 looks like it should remain 2.31 because of the C.

[BaiHu]

Looks right to me, except F2S 1 looks like it should remain 2.31 because of the C.

Ahhh yes. I C that now [emoji12]

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

G3 G19 in an earlier JMCK AIWB 115 gr S&B with a Q bottle, so the results will be a bit off given I didn't have a proper target.

Bill 1: 3.05 3A3C -.25 concealment = 3.55 (correct?)
Bill 2: 3.15 6A -.25 cclmnt = 2.90
F2S 1: 2.31 2A1C -.25 cclmnt = 2.31 (fixed-thx for spotting that Gabe)
F2S 2: 2.22 3A -.25 cclmnt = 1.97
2toH 1: 2.06 1A1C -.25 cclmnt = 2.06
2toH 2: 2.09 2A -.25 cclmnt = 1.84
4B2H 1: 3.36 5A1C -.25 cclmnt = 3.36
4B2H 2: 3.50 5A1C 0.25 cclmnt = 3.50

Oops, I forgot total time: 21.49