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Thread: Investment/heirloom rifle advice

  1. #21
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Runkle View Post
    Colts and Glocks work really well, but as an investment, it'd be like buying a Honda Civic to keep as a classic car.
    Depends on the Civic...If you bought a first-gen Civic Si, say a 1986 model, and maintained it well, it would be a decent investment....In the sense that you got a lot of use out of it, and simultaneously you could sell it today for 4-5,000 bucks (original 1986 price was about 8 grand). In terms of inflation, you lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    In 1916 a well armed TX lawman would have a '95 Winchester and a 1911 or a .44 hand ejector. Then, those were working guns. Today they are heirlooms.

    In 100 years my Glock 17 and 11.5" Colt AR will be heirlooms.
    That's just...not true, man. Sorry, it isn't. There are thousands more Colt ARs and Glock 17s made in the last five years than the total production of 1895 Winchesters and .44 Hand Ejectors combined. In a hundred years, if cased, explosive propelled, ammunition, is still a thing, Colt AR15s will be rarer, for sure and they will be valuable. But they are still unlikely to supersede the value of even older firearms. If you think a Colt LE6920 is going to be more valuable than a first generation Colt SAA in .45 Long Colt, in 100 years, then you're suggesting that individual firearms ownership in the United States will represent a mere fraction of what it is today. Regardless, use a real comparison. Compare the values of a non-functional original Colt Paterson or Walker to the Colt SAA. The SAA was produced in vastly superior numbers and was a vastly superior product. The Patersons and Walkers are still worth 3-5 times the amount the SAA is.

    If you want to give your kids some tools they can cherish and use, an LE6920 and a Glock or HK VP9 would be a good choice. But lets not conflate heirloom quality with production quality. If you want to give them an heirloom that will appreciate in value like gold, go buy them a handbuilt double-rifle, shotgun, or a transferable machine gun.

    ___

    To carry the car analogy a bit farther. A Glock 17 is a like buying your kid a '65 Mustang in 1965, it's going to appreciate in value as it gets older, but it is still one of 500,000 made. A Colt LE 6920 is like buying your kid a '57 Chevy in 1957, it's going to appreciate in value, but it's still a 1957 Chevy. Buying you kid a handbuilt double English rifle is like buying your kid a 1930 4 1/2 litre Bentley. Yes, they made a few (720 to be exact). And yea...it costs a fortune in 1930 dollars (about 10,000 British pounds in 1930...so...a lot of U.S. Dollars). But today...they sell for about 150,000 pounds or 300-500 thousand bucks. In fact the cars are so iconic that companies reproduce clones of them that still cost more than a brand new Porsche 911...

    When the frickin' replicas cost more than a current high-end object of the same type? That's heirloom quality and investment.

    __

    ETA: My grandfather and father always taught me that wise investments are 1) Land, because they aren't making more of it. 2) Natural resources, because they aren't making more of it. 3) Toilet paper, because regardless of what happens people need to shit. 4) Food. Because people need to eat to shit. 5) Skills, because you can't get better doing nothing.

    ___

    ETA 2.0: Please don't confuse my statements on heirlooms versus production quality as saying you shouldn't buy the kids some LE 6920s and quality pistols. By all means, you should do precisely that. Buy them two rifles, and two handguns that are identical, and give them a pallet of ammunition to split. Because regardless of everything else the skills they get from quality working tools are vastly superior to money earned on an English double-rifle that never gets used. That said, if you want to give them something that appreciates in value, then definitely invest in rarity.
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 09-26-2016 at 11:33 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Depends on the Civic...If you bought a first-gen Civic Si, say a 1986 model, and maintained it well, it would be a decent investment....In the sense that you got a lot of use out of it, and simultaneously you could sell it today for 4-5,000 bucks (original 1986 price was about 8 grand). In terms of inflation, you lose.



    That's just...not true, man. Sorry, it isn't. There are thousands more Colt ARs and Glock 17s made in the last five years than the total production of 1895 Winchesters and .44 Hand Ejectors combined. In a hundred years, if cased, explosive propelled, ammunition, is still a thing, Colt AR15s will be rarer, for sure and they will be valuable. But they are still unlikely to supersede the value of even older firearms. If you think a Colt LE6920 is going to be more valuable than a first generation Colt SAA in .45 Long Colt, in 100 years, then you're suggesting that individual firearms ownership in the United States will represent a mere fraction of what it is today. Regardless, use a real comparison. Compare the values of a non-functional original Colt Paterson or Walker to the Colt SAA. The SAA was produced in vastly superior numbers and was a vastly superior product. The Patersons and Walkers are still worth 3-5 times the amount the SAA is.

    If you want to give your kids some tools they can cherish and use, an LE6920 and a Glock or HK VP9 would be a good choice. But lets not conflate heirloom quality with production quality. If you want to give them an heirloom that will appreciate in value like gold, go buy them a handbuilt double-rifle, shotgun, or a transferable machine gun.

    ___

    To carry the car analogy a bit farther. A Glock 17 is a like buying your kid a '65 Mustang in 1965, it's going to appreciate in value as it gets older, but it is still one of 500,000 made. A Colt LE 6920 is like buying your kid a '57 Chevy in 1957, it's going to appreciate in value, but it's still a 1957 Chevy. Buying you kid a handbuilt double English rifle is like buying your kid a 1930 4 1/2 litre Bentley. Yes, they made a few (720 to be exact). And yea...it costs a fortune in 1930 dollars (about 10,000 British pounds in 1930...so...a lot of U.S. Dollars). But today...they sell for about 150,000 pounds or 300-500 thousand bucks. In fact the cars are so iconic that companies reproduce clones of them that still cost more than a brand new Porsche 911...

    When the frickin' replicas cost more than a current high-end object of the same type? That's heirloom quality and investment.

    __

    ETA: My grandfather and father always taught me that wise investments are 1) Land, because they aren't making more of it. 2) Natural resources, because they aren't making more of it. 3) Toilet paper, because regardless of what happens people need to shit. 4) Food. Because people need to eat to shit. 5) Skills, because you can't get better doing nothing.

    ___

    ETA 2.0: Please don't confuse my statements on heirlooms versus production quality as saying you shouldn't buy the kids some LE 6920s and quality pistols. By all means, you should do precisely that. Buy them two rifles, and two handguns that are identical, and give them a pallet of ammunition to split. Because regardless of everything else the skills they get from quality working tools are vastly superior to money earned on an English double-rifle that never gets used. That said, if you want to give them something that appreciates in value, then definitely invest in rarity.
    You are misunderstanding me. I never said heirloom quality. The Germans made hundreds of thousands of Walther P-38s but the one my Dad brought back from WWII is an Heirloom. It may not be a great financial investment, compared to say a Luger, but it is definitely an heirloom to me.

    Scarcity is another factor how many Glock 17's and Colt AR's will survive the next hundred years ? Who knows? My LGS has an 1892 dated Colt SAA in .45 LC right now. It's already 100 years old and is more valuable than a Glock 17 at this time and it will still be more valuable if it survives to be a 200 year old SAA vs a 100 year old Glock.

    If you want to talk scarcity, and quality, perhaps my LaRue .308 would be a better comparison.
    Last edited by HCM; 09-27-2016 at 03:15 AM.

  3. #23
    A couple of good working guns, mags, and ammo are a good thing to stash away for the future.

    A finely handcrafted, blued steel and wood is going to be a constant rust bucket that everyone will be scared to scratch or get a finger print on.

    If you're not into that sort of thing, don't leave it behind. Family heirlooms are rarely about the object itself, rather a reminder of the man who used the tool.

    My safe has a few extra ARs that are LMT lowers with Colt uppers and a few Sig P239s. That's what my kids get. Why? Because they're MY guns now and I keep spares for what I use, and I'm not leaving behind any fancy, rusty, wooden stuff. I don't use antiques now and I don't plan on starting.

    My bolt action .260 is truly my working ranch rifle and if it gets left behind, so be it. It doesn't mean a thing to me. Preserving the second amendment is about fighting guns.
    Last edited by M2CattleCo; 09-27-2016 at 09:52 PM.

  4. #24
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    Preserving the second amendment is about fighting guns.
    True, but that wouldn't stop me from doing heinously bad things for a pristine Kentucky Rifle, a pristine Ferguson Rifle, and a pristine ~32-36 caliber Kentucky/Tennessee squirrel gun.

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