Striker fired appendix carry

[Mr_White]

I've holstered a Gadget equipped G19 a fair number of times when seated, and while it was never under exigent circumstances, I was pretty comfortable with the process. But for as long (or almost as long) as I've been shooting, I've always put my thumb on the hammer/rear of the slide/Gadget no matter what gun I was using at the time.

The kind of 'compromised holstering' situations under discussion now are definitely something I REALLY like the Gadget for.

The big wedge combined with scooting pelvis a bit forward actually gets my body clear for administrative holstering even in a seated position, but it's not something I think would work in an emergency while trying to drive.

[BillSWPA]

The devil is really in the details of this subject.

I don't think I could get sufficient draw practice with a blue gun or SIRT - the weight and inertia is too radically different from my real gun. If I practice drawing for ten minutes with my SIRT, my real draw is immediately screwed up. I have the SIRT with the plastic slide; maybe the one with the metal slide would do better in that regard.

I certainly understand a person being uncomfortable with certain activities from certain holster positions live fire. For me, I try to avoid high volume or pressure in drawing and holstering from positions that actually (more on that later) get the gun pointed at me - some sitting positions, or otherwise all crunched up with my legs together. That kind of stuff isn't usually the subject of high volume, time-pressured range practice though.

High volume and high speed live fire practice mostly happens in a standing position, or standing combined with various movements.

I don't believe AIWB as a category can be nailed down to a specific safety level, because I think it depends on what can be subtle interactions between the gun, the holster, and the practitioner that are hard to consider without specific examples. It adds up differently for different people. I'm firmly convinced that running AIWB the way I do it is safer than any of the strong side IWB holsters I've ever used because it involves much less muzzle-body intersection.

An aspect of this I find really interesting are the differing levels of anxiety different people express about whatever carry method with whatever pistol type. If I couldn't generally avert my muzzle from my body, as with a large-wedged Keeper, I might never have started carrying a Glock AIWB. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable enough to carry any gun in that position if I couldn't avert the muzzle. That's what I'm attached to myself. I'm not sure a manual safety, heavy trigger, or hammer would convince me otherwise. But people cobble together safety in AIWB though a combination of various different factors, and my way isn't the only way to get a safe AIWB carry method going.

AIWB can be undertaken safely through various combinations of the factors that make it harder to fire the gun, harder to hit yourself with the bullet, and harder to hit yourself seriously with the bullet. Further, some of these factors require you do something, and others work passively and don't require you to do anything.

Mitigating factors that require you do something:

A. Trigger finger discipline
B. Hard break before holstering
C. Holster slowly and carefully
D. Look the gun into the holster
E. Bow the pelvis forward when holstering
F. Thumb check a manual safety
G. Thumb check a Gadget or hammer

Mitigating factors that don't require you do something:

H. Heavier/longer trigger pull
I. Holster positioned between groin and leg
J. Big pads on the holster that prevent the muzzle from aligning with your body through flesh compression
K. Longer gun/holster will also make it harder for the muzzle to align with your body through flesh compression
L. Minimize clothing and gear near the holster so foreign matter is less available to get into the trigger guard

I lean hardest on A and J, but also on B, C, E, G, I, K, and L. I really prefer to have at least one factor from the second list, because those factors are not as subject to human error.

Finally, here's a clear, visual demonstration of relative degrees of muzzle-body intersection involved in several of the most common circumstances of drawing and holstering in defensive handgun training. Take a look at the following video and see which of the three carry methods of AIWB (wedged), Strong Side IWB, and Strong Side OWB, result in the least muzzle body intersection, when the pistol is drawn while facing downrange and standing still, taking a step laterally left and right, moving dynamically left and right, and moving forward and backward. I counted zero for seven rule two violations from AIWB, four for seven entire leg violations from Strong Side IWB, and four for seven edge-of-leg violations from Strong Side OWB. It's my belief that AIWB done well, can be safer than either of the two common strong side methods, but that all three are within the common standard of care within the defensive handgun training industry/community. Bottom line is that it is difficult for the gun to shoot what the gun is not pointed at, and based on my experience, training, study, and experimentation, AIWB done very carefully can be undertaken even more safely than other much more common, popular, and also perfectly legitimate carry methods when it comes to minimizing the gun being pointed at the user during normal defensive handgun training and practice.

As to a couple of technical points about the video - I used a SIRT and taped the trigger back so the laser was continuously discharging. Knowing that it was the SIRT, I was in SIRT mode, which includes holstering more quickly than I try to holster a real gun. I used a tape line on the floor to keep my starting foot position consistent at about shoulder width apart, and I turned the lights down so the laser would be more visible.

As someone who is not a fan of AIWB carry, I think this is one of the best explanations of how to carry AIWB safely and correctly I have seen.

Regarding the SIRT, I have the one with the metal slide, and my shooting range uses the plastic slide for NRA Basic Pistol classes. The plastic slide version works very well for diagnosing and correcting beginner sight alignment and trigger squeeze issues, but is very different from an actual Glock. The metal slide is much closer to an actual Glock, and while I don't get to practice as much as you, I find that frequent practice with my metal slide version really helps keep my draw stroke polished when I cannot make it to the range. My only complaint is that I cannot close the thumb break strap on a shoulder holster with the SIRT pistol. While I do not use shoulder holsters with any frequency, the lack of a belt on a tuxedo makes a shoulder holster ideal for an upcoming formal occasion, and I really would have appreciated the ability to use the SIRT to re-acclimate myself to a shoulder holster draw.

Regarding covering yourself during a draw, my drawstroke from 3:30 has much in common with a traditional Isshinryu reverse punch, with my elbow rubbing my side for much of the drawstroke. This keeps the muzzle generally parallel to my body, so that in the very unlikely event that something went horribly wrong, I would not be likely to end up with a deep wound, although I agree with Paul Sharp that getting shot always sucks. I also tend to use a left foot forward stance (Isshinryu seisan stance) when shooting for front to rear stability as well as side to side stability, so my front leg would likely be muzzled badly by a draw from an AIWB holster.

I prefer to select my gear so that it can be concealed with an open or closed front concealment garment, to allow me to carry comfortably, and to allow me to place other items on my belt as needed. 3:30 does that for me.

[Mr_White]

Many thanks, Bill!

Good to hear your comments about the metal slide SIRT. Might get that someday. I have only two regrets about purchasing the green/red laser plastic slide SIRT that I did - shoulda bought it earlier, and shoulda sprung for the metal slide.

[Paul Sharp]

The kind of 'compromised holstering' situations under discussion now are definitely something I REALLY like the Gadget for.

The big wedge combined with scooting pelvis a bit forward actually gets my body clear for administrative holstering even in a seated position, but it's not something I think would work in an emergency while trying to drive.

Or say one is entangled and can't release the opponent for a variety of reasons. We had our gun out, did what we needed to do, but someone else got involved that doesn't need to be shot. Now we're in a situation where we need to handle business with empty hand skills so we need... Empty hands. I realize this is a pic from an article on LE defensive tactics however, it shows a position we might find ourselves where we have to restrain someone or we're otherwise entangled and need to reholster as quickly as possible. This pic/position is relevant for me because I've found myself having to reholster while in this or similar positions on the job. It was fairly easy in a OWB duty holster but we know the same action in an AIWB holster might be a bit more challenging.

Riding a hammer/gadget or otherwise safety equipped pistol into an AIWB holster in this situation is much more desirable than attempting the same task with a striker fired pistol.



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[Rex G]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm curious what the current consensus is on this. Seems to me that many people have no problem carrying striker fired appendix carry. I know Todd had carried that way before, but he preferred a hammer or a safety which I completely understand. Any method is only as safe as the person behind the gun but just getting a feeler for how you guys go about. I've always carried with milt sparks iwb but I'm trying to make the leap to AIWB.

Some general principals I have used, while AIWB-ing and AOWB-ing since the mid-Eighties:

The trigger is not a carry handle, or a finger rest. When amped-up on adrenaline, one can negligently discharge an S&W DA revolver trigger, if one's finger is where it does not belong. Yes, even a long-stroke DA revolver trigger is not certain insurance against an ND.

Re-holster the weapon v-e-r-y carefully, preceded by great forethought.

Preferably, re-holster while the support hand reaches inside the waistband to cant the holster so that the toe of the holster is aimed at the ground, well in front of you.

Do not re-holster while distracted. Re-holstering should be an all-consuming, full-concentration activity. Plenty of folks, on both sides of the law, shoot themselves, or shoot other things near them, while securing a weapon after having just fired rounds at an opponent, or even just pointed a weapon without firing. I would know this, even if I had never watched the news, or used the internet, because I work for a large PD, and have seen evidence of this at scenes, and have heard the anecdotes from reliable colleagues.

I have typed this, off the top of my head, without reading any of the reply posts.

Edited to add: I have rarely carried "primary" at appendix, but have often carried secondary/tertiary at appendix. Sometimes, the weapon carried AIWB has been the larger weapon, because a secondary weapon is not necessarily a lesser weapon than one's primary weapon.