Human Targets

[Duces Tecum]

A friend illustrates it with an edge-on 2x4 behind the target...

A 2x2 offers the possibility of non-frontal practice.

[John Hearne]

Studying Grays Anatomy is great, talking with ER nurse's and doctor's and EMS who have dealt with it better.

The best way to study this is "Bodies: The Exhibition." I spent several hours at the one in Atlanta.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodies:_The_Exhibition

[Luke]

I went to the same exhibit when it was in Birmingham. Very cool.

[Nephrology]

The best way to study this is "Bodies: The Exhibition." I spent several hours at the one in Atlanta.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodies:_The_Exhibition

Nothing beats getting up close and personal.

[Dov]

It was always one of those things Todd and I bitched about to each other. The canned answer was "technical drill" to which my retort.."shot on an anatomical human looking target", and....you had a bunch of folks working on it constantly and repetitively for a particular goal score, in which case folks start building habits. I prefer something like a failure drill or box drill on two targets....but that's just me.



Just got off the phone with GJM on this. I think animals give us very good indicators on performance. The ones I like to look at in particular if we are looking for anti personnel performance are things like 180 pound deer. Weirdly, lots of things good on human drop them real well. Also, things they tend to kill the crap out of the smaller deer tend to also be devastating on humans....I think the answer will be "30/30 works REALLY good" on people.

I know DB isn't hanging out here much if at all anymore, but this is just another one of the cases where his thoughts/comments are eerily close to things Keith Jones has expressed.

I know Keith Jone's department was emulating some of the very successful approaches to training etc being used by CA Police departments, so its not really that strange.

[Dov]

Thanks D.

Ive shot a couple deer with different makes of bullets, the Speer 170s seem pretty hard and don't tear stuff up much. A doe deer I shot with them was hit 3 times before staying down. There wasn't much meat damage when I butchered her. I'm wanting to try the 150s and maybe 125/130s out also. Not everything needs to be a bear load, especially when not in grizzly country, which unfortunately, I'm not as much as usual for the time being. One skunk I shot with a Hornady 170 was pretty much turned inside out. I think they aren't as tough of a bullet as the Speers. They also have a terrible BC compared to the Speers.

Burt Devry (sp?) tested bunch of 30-30 loads back in the day, Keith Jones and maybe Chuck Haggard followed up that older testing done by Burt in Water (think it was water but might be misremembering) with Gelatin testing.

Federal 30-30/125 JHP (3030C) and Winchester 150 JHP (X30301) did well.

The Federal 125 JHP did ~13" in gelatin from both 16" and 20" barrels.

The Winchester 150 JHP my surviving notes are little unclear think it did 13-14" penetration from 20" rifles, and did ~17" penetration from 16" carbine barrels.

[ST911]

The best way to study this is "Bodies: The Exhibition." I spent several hours at the one in Atlanta.

Nothing beats getting up close and personal.

After an autopsy or cadever lab, Bodies is probably the next best thing. Lots of perspective on just how small stuff is and how many variables are in play.

[John Hearne]

After an autopsy or cadever lab, Bodies is probably the next best thing. Lots of perspective on just how small stuff is and how many variables are in play.

And the Bodies exhibit smells much better than those other options.