Human Targets

[voodoo_man]

That can be the case, though fatigue is subjective. 2 objective signs of critical hemorrhage are skin color (pale=bad) and skin temperature (cool=bad). Check at the extremities first (fingertips, backs of the hands, ankles, feet). Weak or thready pulses (intermittantly palpable) are another sign severe blood loss. Mental status can also be an indicator; anxiety/jitteriness that progresses to confusion & lethargy is classic for hemorrhagic shock.

That said, none of these signs are necessarily reliable and presentation is highly variable. For more, here are a few good resources.

While I am not a doctor obviously there needs to be something more than just mere statements. I always try to be as educated on these matters and will review the resources you posted.

That.

Darryl and I teach that the most common reaction from an adversary who's received a solid hit in a fight is the standard mammalian response of simply running away from the fight. Four footed creatures do it and two footed ones do too. Just remember not to chase them afterwards....let somebody else do that.

But chasing people is half the fun...

[Nephrology]

While I am not a doctor obviously there needs to be something more than just mere statements.

What do you mean, exactly? Not sure I understand.

[JAD]

But chasing people is half the fun...

You are exactly who Wayne meant by 'someone else.'

[Wayne Dobbs]

While I am not a doctor obviously there needs to be something more than just mere statements. I always try to be as educated on these matters and will review the resources you posted.



But chasing people is half the fun...

Chasing somebody you just shot is full of fail. Your decision making capabilities are not at their best and the specter of shooting somebody and then pursuing them and shooting them again will not play well to the police, prosecutors or judges/juries, especially as a civilian. I agree that chasing bad guys, especially in the dark, is one of the pinnacles of life and I've done it a ton as a street cop. This is one of the times you shouldn't do what your genetic hardwiring wants you to do.

[voodoo_man]

What do you mean, exactly? Not sure I understand.

That them merely saying that they are tired or something of that nature is not enough there needs to be more to it than that....like the observations you posted which were in response to my statements of trauma.

You are exactly who Wayne meant by 'someone else.'

Chasing somebody you just shot is full of fail. Your decision making capabilities are not at their best and the specter of shooting somebody and then pursuing them and shooting them again will not play well to the police, prosecutors or judges/juries, especially as a civilian. I agree that chasing bad guys, especially in the dark, is one of the pinnacles of life and I've done it a ton as a street cop. This is one of the times you shouldn't do what your genetic hardwiring wants you to do.

You mean all this time I thought I loved chasing criminals but I was genetically predisposed to doing it...

[BehindBlueI's]

That.

Darryl and I teach that the most common reaction from an adversary who's received a solid hit in a fight is the standard mammalian response of simply running away from the fight. Four footed creatures do it and two footed ones do too. Just remember not to chase them afterwards....let somebody else do that.

Yup, although I generally get a ration of shit when I mention it, there's no bad hits...but there are certainly better hits.

[voodoo_man]

Yup, although I generally get a ration of shit when I mention it, there's no bad hits...but there are certainly better hits.

I like the "first hit probably wins" type of approach to gunfights.

[11B10]

This thread is one of those that one prints out and reads over and over. This "lurker" is very thankful to all who contributed.

[Wayne Dobbs]

You mean all this time I thought I loved chasing criminals but I was genetically predisposed to doing it...

I think it's genetic and I think it's also even more deeply ingrained in those of us who were and are CALLED to do the LE and Mil "job".

[Dagga Boy]

I like the "first hit probably wins" type of approach to gunfights.

Yup, although I generally get a ration of shit when I mention it, there's no bad hits...but there are certainly better hits.

My experience has been first solid hit wins. We have seen plenty of peripherals, particularly with handgun bullets that are almost un-noticed. For the ones that notice and are un-phased, they usually require a round in the face or head to put them down. This was the problem with the "Mozambique" as originally taught with two hits and assess. That "assess" time was forever when the bad guy was not phased by the first two hits. This stuff needs to happen in fairly compressed time frames. As I have said before, the brain can be a big help in "fixing" the time in your favor, especially if it has an over learned short cut in place that helps to not move to an emotional state when seeing a failure to stop.

That can be the case, though fatigue is subjective. 2 objective signs of critical hemorrhage are skin color (pale=bad) and skin temperature (cool=bad). Check at the extremities first (fingertips, backs of the hands, ankles, feet). Weak or thready pulses (intermittantly palpable) are another sign severe blood loss. Mental status can also be an indicator; anxiety/jitteriness that progresses to confusion & lethargy is classic for hemorrhagic shock.

That said, none of these signs are necessarily reliable and presentation is highly variable. For more, here are a few good resources.

Most of the folks I am talking about never see a medical professional other than getting declared by a paramedic, or declared on arrival to the E/R. Essentially, they are very dead and the brain is making arrangements. Fight to the end, or lay down and quietly enjoy the last moments.