MAC does more torture testing, this time angers SIG fans

[Nephrology]

MAC compares a new SIG P226 Legion with some no-name Slovenian P226 copy (Rex Zero 1). Tests them in series - dunks them in a tub of water, then sand, then dirt, then mud. Spoiler alert - the P226 chokes on the dirt test while the Rex passes with flying colors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuPOqDlaX6U

Last time he managed to piss off HK fans by doing stuff that seemed pretty silly, but I'll be honest, this seemed to me like a pretty fair test. He wasn't excessively abusive in handling these guns and exposed them to contaminants that, while unlikely, are not out of the realm of the possible for someone using either pistol as a duty/service gun.

Thoughts? Commentary? I have no real love or hate for either gun used in the above video, so I have no real dog in this fight. That said if I had to pick one as a birthday present it definitely would be the SIG, torture test be damned.

Mods, if this is the wrong forum for this thread, by all means relocate it as you see fit.

[MSparks909]

MAC compares a new SIG P226 Legion with some no-name Slovenian P226 copy (Rex Zero 1). Tests them in series - dunks them in a tub of water, then sand, then dirt, then mud. Spoiler alert - the P226 chokes on the dirt test while the Rex passes with flying colors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuPOqDlaX6U

Last time he managed to piss off HK fans by doing stuff that seemed pretty silly, but I'll be honest, this seemed to me like a pretty fair test. He wasn't excessively abusive in handling these guns and exposed them to contaminants that, while unlikely, are not out of the realm of the possible for someone using either pistol as a duty/service gun.

Thoughts? Commentary? I have no real love or hate for either gun used in the above video, so I have no real dog in this fight. That said if I had to pick one as a birthday present it definitely would be the SIG, torture test be damned.

Mods, if this is the wrong forum for this thread, by all means relocate it as you see fit.

Watched that video the other day. I will say that the Arex surprised me. I'm willing to bet it has more...generous tolerances than the 226 Legion, which likely contributed to its ability to keep chugging along through sand, dirt and mud. I will say that this video is an excellent example of why a second strike ability might be desired by an end user. At one point the Rex Zero or whatever it was called was slightly out of battery when he pulled the trigger. The falling hammer pushed the slide into battery, and Mac pulled the trigger again and the round fired. With a striker fired design, he would have had push the back of the slide into battery or clear with a tap, rack. Just interesting because I always attributed second strike capabilities to a bad or heavy primer, not necessarily to an extremely fouled/dirty handgun.

Makes me wonder how a MK25 or a broken in Legion would have faired. I'm not gonna run out and sell my Sigs, but I am curious what it would take to get the Legion to pass or if it ever would pass.

I want to see him re-test the VP9/40. I'd be interested to see if it would still fail these sand and dirt tests. Part of me hopes he has a USP/HK 45 or HK P series lying around that he wants to test too.

[OlongJohnson]

I didn't bother to watch the video when it was posted on SigTalk, but I did here. Go figure.

There's something blindingly obvious to me in my attempt to not sit through all half hour of his chatter. The Sig tested is a P226 with a full-length slide that extends ahead of the dust cover. The knockoff is a "pseudo P229" with a slide that is the same length as the dust cover. So there's not just a surface, but a crevice on the P226 where the debris can adhere and be dragged rearward in between the slide and rails when the pistol is fired. The short slide has no such surface.

If he wants to repeat the test with an actual P229 or a "pseudo P226" to make it an apples to apples comparison, maybe I'll care about the knockoff/OG part of the comparison. Until then, he's just shown he sucks at playing with blocks (figuring out how shapes fit together). I admit I stopped skipping through to what looked important (like actual testing rather than talking about testing) at 16:55, so there's about 14 minutes of him talking that I haven't heard, and several more minutes I didn't actually watch before that. Someone else let me know if he figures it out at some point. I don't have enough f's to give to sit through his overly long video any more than Nutnfancy's stream of semi-consciousness droning on and on.

My takeaway is that if you want to drop a pistol in mud and then not dunk it in the stream before firing it, get one where the dust cover covers the full length of the slide.

[GardoneVT]

An absolutely meaningless test, from the standpoint of reliability.

For one ; a sample size of one is useless. He'd need at least 31 copies of each weapon, each of them tested with the same brand of ammo and under similar conditions. Such samples would need to be purchased over the counter from various places across the country in order to closely approximate real-world firearms acquisitions by customer and to avoid sample bias.

Of course, if your goal is to drive up channel viewership by Sig fans and gun collectors looking for the next fad, playing up the Sig's perceived faults is a smart move.

[Peally]

My opinion is "torture tests" are stupid and people are stupid for putting any faith in them. MAC is basically a bearded Hickok45, they just stand around and shoot and people that don't shoot a lot get enjoyment out of watching that sort of thing on YouTube.

[MSparks909]

The Arex Rex Zero is in stock on Copper Custom's (aka Mac's) website in case anybody here wants one

[BehindBlueI's]

I'll recycle my comment from another forum: I've no idea if mine would pass the above test or not. I'm not in the habit of dunking it in mud or sand prior to attempting to shoot it. Interesting for Youtube and the like, though.

I didn't watch the video, I skipped around enough to see buckets of sand and mud and realized I did not give two shits about the 'test' or the results. It will get clicks, though, and that's the point.

[EVP]

Did not watch the vp9 one or the 226 one. Really I did not watch any of his videos except the beretta m9a3 because it was the first one.


I think it's funny how the videos create a uproar and then he starts pimping some obscure pistol. The whole thing is dumb and just done to get clicks/money.

[Sadmin]

Why can't they just shoot 1000 rounds in one sitting? 300 defensive, 300 hot ball, 300 subs, 100 conical...to this day on the Internet, I've never seen a tweaker or banger pop out of a veggie garden or the edge of the surf. Tits on a bull.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

For one ; a sample size of one is useless. He'd need at least 31 copies of each weapon...

In this case, sample sizes of one each is sufficient. The test is not looking for random variation among items understood to be similar or intended to be the same. It is comparing significant and fundamental design differences and how they interact with the environment. I'd expect very similar results 30 out of 30 times, especially as he demonstrated through repeated trials that the outcome was repeatable. It has nothing to do with the "quality" of the product produced by the two manufacturers, it was just comparing two significantly different designs in a particular set of operating conditions.