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Thread: Should meat hunters stop using lead ammunition?

  1. #101
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post

  2. #102
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    Had a patient come in with a 9mm fmj in their elbow. Entered the forearm on the dorsal side, 5" distal to its resting place near the humeroulnar juncture. The nose appeared slightly deformed but otherwise intact. However, I noted half a dozen very small opacities along the wound tract on XR. Some nearly 1" from said tract. This as best I can tell likely "squeezed out of the base" of the bullet, even though the bullets base appeared flat on the XR. The nose had a decent dent.

    My point is that if a 9mm fmj can toothpaste tube lead fragments 1" radially into meat when impacting at 1100fps or so, anything containing lead from a rifle can do far more. With deer season coming up, I felt this topic pertinent again, and based on this first hand experience will likely opt for a Barnes or Hornady copper hp solution.

  3. #103
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    I am switching to lead-free this season. I'll use the rest of my lead ammo as practice rounds.

    Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

  4. #104
    I used to hunt with Nosler Partitions in all calibers. I switched to Barnes bullets maybe 7 years ago, and the only difference I can report is that I see more shoot-throughs. I shot this 150 lb meat hog at about 90 yards with a .308 150 gr TSX last week. He was quartered to me, so entry was just inside the shoulder, exit through the ribs; pretty much typical performance for these bullets.

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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    The lead issue is complete bullshit. It's gun control in a costume.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt O View Post
    This, right there. In bold, caps, and neon fucking lights.
    The obligatory #necrothreadbump QFT. ^^

  6. #106
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    I’ve been lead-free for about three years now. I had seen some research regarding lead levels in raptors as well as the conversations around the general thought that lead and ecology don’t mix. As a hunter and outdoor recreationalist, I want to be a steward and contributor to the ecological systems, not a disruptor.

    Lead-free waterfowl ammo was accepted and no one really complains anymore so I think the sentiment is coming around.

    Personally, I hope Zinke’s reversal is overturned, we don’t need lead in those natural treasures.
    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

    What would TR do? TRCP BHA

  7. #107
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWTO View Post
    I’ve been lead-free for about three years now. I had seen some research regarding lead levels in raptors as well as the conversations around the general thought that lead and ecology don’t mix. As a hunter and outdoor recreationalist, I want to be a steward and contributor to the ecological systems, not a disruptor.

    Lead-free waterfowl ammo was accepted and no one really complains anymore so I think the sentiment is coming around.

    Personally, I hope Zinke’s reversal is overturned, we don’t need lead in those natural treasures.
    This is basically becoming my philosophy.

    And I think the sooner the shooting community embraces lead-free primers and lead-free bullets, the better off we will be. Because we can cut off the environmentalists at the path.

    "Lead may harm the environment."

    "To protect and be stewards of the land, we as a community have begun to seriously adopt lead free bullets and primers. We want to reduce our impact."

    "Oh well...uhh...shooting animals is bad!"

    "Except that we've known for 100+ years that selective culling of herds is necessary to produce the healthiest populations and sustain the environments."

    "Well..."

    I know folks think that such a line of conversation isn't productive - but I can tell you straight up - I've had the conversation above with green tree huggers and ultimately it becomes a "this is bad". But once you start cutting off the various negative aspects, the argument boils down to, "Well I don't like guns." At which point, it's easy enough to diffuse their arguments with logic. And you know what? It actually shuts them up and occasionally changes minds.

    The sooner we stop the "not my lead" "not my land" "not my X, Y, Z" rhetoric and recognize we can make changes within that change the situation and the optics of the situation, the better we are.

    ___

    FWIW - When I construct my personal outdoor gun range, I'm planning to transition to monolithic projectiles and/or copper frangibles for all of my shooting needs. I want to construct a range that produces minimal impact on the landscape and local environment and minimizes (or avoids entirely) any potential nasty surprises down the road. Partly because I fully intend to live the rest of my life where that range is built at and continue shooting for 50+ years there and partly because I'm kind of a tree hugger myself.

    In fact, when I build the house, it's getting solar and wind power. And I intend to deliberately address runoff/hydrogeology issues by building in such a way as to limit impact on natural runoff areas.

  8. #108
    I’m no expert on the use if lead and its impact on nature vs a range. At a range you will definitely see an impact of the lead build up simply cause millions of rounds go into the exact same berm. Not so out in the field. You’ll probably have a more positive environmental impact by switching practice ammo to non lead than hunting/defensive ammo.

    With that stated, I’m all for being the best steward of this rock as possible, so I think scaling up lead free alternatives to reduce costs is a good thing... until we discover that the alternative has an impact...

    I wouldn’t hold your breath on making any headway with the protestors and environmental nazis. Lead ammo is nothing more than an avenue of attack against hunting and firearms in general. They will just get all happy they on the lead war and move along to the next point if attack.

  9. #109
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    "until we discover that the alternative has an impact..."

    Camp Edwards, MA.....

    https://www.capecodtoday.com/article...r-Camp-Edwards
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  10. #110
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    "Intraarticular bullets should be removed surgically at the time of the injury. In addition to causing joint damage, intraarticular bullets can fragment and dissolve in synovial fluid, leading to lead absorption and delayed symptomatic lead poisoning. The patient received chelation therapy."

    See the images with the full article:

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMicm1804726


    Lead Toxicity from a Retained Bullet

    Jose I. Marquez, M.D., and Michael A. Schindlbeck, M.D.

    December 20, 2018
    N Engl J Med 2018; 379:2451
    DOI: 10.1056/NEJMicm1804726
    "To achieve any significant technological breakthrough, much Derp must be endured." -Rich@CCC
    "Your shotgun is running a bit frenetic, you should add some lavender to your lubricant, that should calm it down." -Aray, Oils and Lotions SME


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