LEOSA: Qualifications and Covered Firearms

[blues]

Here in NC, if one doesn't qualify with their old agency, (my former outfit doesn't get involved), we must qualify with a state certified range officer who is authorized to administer qualifications to law enforcement officers.

In my case, I qualify with the local sheriff's office and then send in a notarized form with my scores, (both day and night), as well as a copy of my retired creds and a money order to the NC DOJ which sends me back a card certifying my LEOSA qualification, the applicable dates and the firearms qualified with (but not their serial numbers).

In the following article by James M. Baranowski, Esq. of the NRA-ILA, he maintains that as long as the qualification for the firearms is the same, one can properly carry any handgun, whether pistol or revolver, even if it is not one of the firearms that the retired LEO qualified with:

As the legislative history, statute, and case law make clear, if you qualify on one type of firearm, you can carry any firearm of that type under LEOSA. Accordingly, qualifying with a handgun enables you to carry any handgun under LEOSA, be it pistol or revolver. No separate qualification is necessary unless the state or agency has a different qualification standard for it.

Was curious whether other LEO's and instructors agree that this is the case...or, alternatively, believe that only the specific model of firearm qualified with is covered.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I don't think that matter is clearly covered, but what I do since I travel quite to various socialist paradise states like NJ, NY and CA so much is to make sure I've qualified with the gun I'm carrying and to carry a copy of that qual form with me in my ID wallet. It for sure proves that I'm GTG with the gun in my possession.

[blues]

I do the same, Wayne. Keep a copy of the qualification and documents in the vehicle even though the card itself lists the two firearms I qualified with.

Reason I asked was, let's say I qualified with a Glock 19 and 26 but decided to buy a 43 for those occasions I wanted to carry something a tad smaller and lighter. Same qualification course, same manufacturer and basically the same gun but for size and magazine.

Would I need to re-qualify to carry it or would I be good to go? Like you say, you'd hate to be caught out in NJ, (where I have a sister), by way of example. They're a bit of a different animal there under the best of circumstances.

[Dagga Boy]

My old agency mandates two guns only. When I pointed out that this is not based in any legal statute or part of a law, I basically gave them two choices...I can make a huge stink, or being I am likely the only one who gives a crap, just do mine different. They do my mine different. Most have an actual make and model of two guns. Mine is HK 9mm/45, S&W .38/357. Add that my Texas CHL covers just about everything in Texas, it works. I only travel with HK's and back up Smith's, so it works.

A lot of places are doing whatever they want, and we also have numerous jurisdictions that tend to be sanctuary cities who could care less about your LEOSA status. It really is a bit of a mess, but it involves two things generally despised by many politicians and those in power.....cops, and guns, so it doesn't seem like there is any urgency anywhere to fix anything. Also, very few Chief's and upper staff level administrators in police agencies could give two craps, and actually do not like their officers carrying guns off duty or in retirement, so they will also do nothing or care much.

[blues]

Ain't it the truth, nyeti... My old department and agency regs state that they may or may not issue identification which certifies that you were and retired as a federal law enforcement officer depending on how much of a hassle it is for them. (And if they do deign to provide such, they will make you jump through as many hoops as possible to essentially force you to drop the issue out of hand. Go for a set of prints, have a background check and then report to a location of their choosing for interview and vetting.)

Thankfully, I kept my retired creds. I feel sorry for those that haven't.

Furthermore, they will have nothing to do with qualifying former agents under their command.

Gotta love the gov't. They're here to help.

[Jason M]

Pennsylvania's LEOSA paperwork for qualifying retired LEOs has provision for type of weapon as well as make and model. There is a check box for Revolver, Pistol or Both on the acknowledgment form. On the roster form for all of the officers present for any given range session the make and model for each pistol used is recorded. NO serial numbers are included. Oddly enough, there is a place for the type of ammunition used for qualification.

[voodoo_man]

Has anyone covered under LEOSA gotten jammed up because they used a gun that wasn't part of their qual or listed?

[tanner]

The statute is very poorly written and not well thought out at all. I would be willing to bet that 95% of working cops wouldn't even look hard at your creds let alone ask to see your heater and ammo to see if it is within what they think the regs are.

Any decent lawyer could poke a million holes in any case a dim witted prosecutor would try to make on this.


Having said all that, I firmly endorse the advice given above. Plan accordingly, leave as little to chance as possible, but don't lie awake at night overthinking it. It isn't likely going to be an issue.

[Dagga Boy]

The statute is very poorly written and not well thought out at all. I would be willing to bet that 95% of working cops wouldn't even look hard at your creds let alone ask to see your heater and ammo to see if it is within what they think the regs are.

Any decent lawyer could poke a million holes in any case a dim witted prosecutor would try to make on this.


Having said all that, I firmly endorse the advice given above. Plan accordingly, leave as little to chance as possible, but don't lie awake at night overthinking it. It isn't likely going to be an issue.

The problem is not neccesarily with street officers and interactions. I traveled to a location recently to do training for their range staff. I was heavily admonished on Ammo and magazines. Not because of their people screwing with me, but because "our DA here would love to string up a cop if you got in a shooting as a retired LEO", and "the DA does not care about LEOSA". This is really what you are dealing with. Look at the officers in Baltimore....yea, of course the cops were innocent of what the DA was charging in a political prosecution, does not mean it didn't make their lives totally fricking miserable. On a good front it appears that courts are getting good about punishing places that do improper cases against LEOSA covered officers, but...I don't want to find out or consider getting a payout at taxpayers expense with no punishment to the offenders years after going through hell a big victory or anything I want any part of.

[Sammy1]

The problem is not neccesarily with street officers and interactions. I traveled to a location recently to do training for their range staff. I was heavily admonished on Ammo and magazines. Not because of their people screwing with me, but because "our DA here would love to string up a cop if you got in a shooting as a retired LEO", and "the DA does not care about LEOSA". This is really what you are dealing with. Look at the officers in Baltimore....yea, of course the cops were innocent of what the DA was charging in a political prosecution, does not mean it didn't make their lives totally fricking miserable. On a good front it appears that courts are getting good about punishing places that do improper cases against LEOSA covered officers, but...I don't want to find out or consider getting a payout at taxpayers expense with no punishment to the offenders years after going through hell a big victory or anything I want any part of.

This is exactly on point. You don't have to worry about law enforcement as much as the District Attorney or State Prosecutor finding a perceived loophole to drag you through the mud. In Massachusetts they came up with their own regulations for issuing the LEOSA card and it's complicated. I recently traveled to NJ and was told don't worry about it, until I spoke with an investigator for the Prosecutors Office who told me yes you will worry about it and you won't carry HP ammunition or high capacity magazines. I carried my G27 with critical defense (this is what he told me was OK.) You may eventually win but you'll be broke and broken down by the process.