"Originally Posted by spinmove_
Spinmove
I see your comment about using JC's "correct" method of dry firing, but I must be missing where this is described. I typically pin the trigger back then reset the striker before release as you mentioned doing as this is what I thought was correct. Could you point out the post that describes the method you are talking about please? Thanks in advance...
Certainly. The "correct" method that I'm referring to is in the initial posting of this thread here. Specifically his 4th point of "catching the link" during reset. Basically the way I interpreted that aspect was that if you're attempting to incorporate the experience of the reset during dry fire practice, then you're just wasting time on something that's ultimately not that valuable. I've found that, even since just recently no longer pinning the trigger to the rear in dry fire practice, that as soon as the striker is released, my finger starts to go back towards the reset point. This seems to result in me torquing the trigger significantly less during or at the end of the trigger press.
I did some more dry fire practice yesterday. I started out with the G17Gen2 and got some good reps in, both two-handed and SHO/WHO. I then immediately transitioned to the G19Gen4 with medium backstrap. A couple of observations that I noticed:
1.) The medium backstrap without beavertail seems to create an odd sensation where the top of the tang and the web of my hand meet up. It feels like something is missing there and gets my had up closer to almost being above the tang and where slide bite could occur. I don't think that would ever happen, but I'm wondering if going to the medium backstrap with the beavertail would alleviate this sensation and feel more "correct". I'm open to suggestions and opinions here.
2.) The gen4 trigger bar with smooth faced trigger has a noticeably heavier, creepier, and hitchier (if that's even a word) break than my Gen2 G17. Part of me wants to tell myself to just suck it up and live with it until it breaks itself in more (500 rounds or more have gone through the gun with that trigger bar installed) or if it would simply be more prudent to installing a Gen3 smooth trigger bar since apparently that does work. Open to suggestions and opinions here as well (I guess that kind of goes without saying).
So far I'm definitely noticing improvements in my trigger press. Maintaining a more appropriate grip and natural trigger finger placement while also not pinning the trigger to the rear on any dry fire trigger press seems to be helping a lot. Hopefully I'll have some rather positive results next week.
Thanks for the link spinmove.
Just FYI. My first Glock was a Gen 3 21. I shot it really well and was bummed when I later got a Gen 4 19 for my wife and a 17 for myself and didn't shoot them as well. I thought the larger backstraps would make them feel the same a the ol' 21, but they didn't. Eventually with a little trigger work and time they all shoot about the same for me.
Yeah, the G21 has a bigger and chunkier frame all the way around, not just from a LOP perspective. I was surprised that I enjoyed shooting the G21Gen4 I rented as much as I did. I was fully expecting to like shooting the M&P45 more due to it's seemingly more user friendly grip. Yet another reason why you should definitely shoot something before you just go and buy it.
I had a chance to try out the cheap boresighter that I have on hand in my G17 and G19 yesterday. Fortunately, from what I can tell, my revised two-handed grip technique combined with my revised trigger finger placement and trigger press seems to be solid and clean. Unfortunately, whenever the firing pin hits the boresighter, it shifts the boresighter in the chamber causing the dot to move. From what I can tell, the dot's movement is pretty consistent from press to press. Judging based on technique vs. boresighter shift, I'm doing something right, but I can't be 100% sure. It was a fun and interesting experiment nonetheless.
Not much new to report other than the reps that I'm getting in make what I'm trying to accomplish feel more natural. Two-handed seems solid and more and more effortless as I get the reps in. SHO/WHO trigger presses are starting to clean up pretty well, but generally start off pretty shaky on the first few presses, so there's still plenty of work to be done there.
I might be ordering a gen3 smooth trigger bar for my G19 this weekend though. The trigger characteristics as it is now is rather horrible compared to pretty much every other pistol I own, not just my well broken in G17Gen2's trigger. I'd REALLY like to know what Glock was thinking when they modified the Gen4 trigger bars.
Alright, so I finally had a chance to hit the range today. TLR version - I'm 95% sure I've got my issue fixed, but I'm switching backstraps and I'll hit the range again next week to confirm.
So I get to the range, and assume the grip, stance, and trigger finger placement that I had been dry firing with for the past week or so. Result? Grouping tightly about an inch to the left of center at 25ft. So I made another adjustment by rotating my hand like in the picture below. Yes, I know, my finger is on the trigger. The gun is cleared and am demonstrating how my trigger finger looks while pressing straight to the rear.
It's a subtle difference just looking at it on camera and in person, but the feel is significantly different. I loaded up another magazine and took aim again. Dead center. Although, I find that with this backstrap (medium beavertail) that my trigger reach is actually further away than with a Gen2/Gen3 Glock. I've since swapped back to the medium backstrap with no beavertail and will be running this the next time I go out.
The following is 8 shots at 15ft. The trigger safety on this trigger seems to have a random hitch in it when I go to press it. I need to order that gen3 smooth trigger bar replacement very soon.
The following is 10 rounds at 25yds. two-handed firing as soon as I had an acceptable sight picture. Against neutral/lighter colored backgrounds/targets I like the blacked out rear and painted front. Against black targets? I have to say, I kinda really don't like it and would honestly rather go back to a 3-dot system. I might have to do some testing of that theory as my G17 wears Glock OEM tritium sights.
The following is two 6 round groups at 25ft. They are slightly to the left of where I was aiming at, but I think this may be partly due to getting frustrated with the trigger hitch I kept running into and my incessant need to pin the trigger to the rear that I'm still trying to break. I noticed that I was squeezing a bit harder than I needed to with my firing at at the end of those two strings.
The following is 2 15 round mags dumped into the headbox of the target at 25ft. breaking the shots as fast as I could. Basically it was "see front sight on target, press trigger".
So yeah, I'm obviously not the greatest shot in the world. But the progress I made today is worlds better and much straighter than it was a couple weeks ago. I'll continue doing dry practice like I have been recently and REALLY try to break my habit of pining the trigger to the rear. Thanks for everyone's help! It's greatly appreciated.
Alright, so the past couple of weeks I've been working on my dry practice more. I think I caught myself going back to the "dead fish" grip during dry fire again (old habits die hard), but I'm breaking myself from pinning the trigger to the rear. So I'm making some improvements.
I tried using more of the tip of my finger and found that I was more inconsistent than using slightly more finger. Not pushing shots any further left than I had been, but more inconsistent with where the groups were overall.
I ended up removing the medium backstrap and went back to the stock Gen4 grip size. Despite the fact that the overall circumference is smaller than Gen3 grips, the consistency of where the gun meets the web of my hand feels like it's more important than grip circumference. This also seems to bring me to a more similar trigger reach to my Gen2 G17. This sounds like it shouldn't be, but comparing them side by side, this appears to be the case for me. Odd to say the least. I'll continue experimenting with this.
I discovered that the front sight I installed to replace the Defoor front (Ameriglo white dot front, .125 wide, standard height). This shoots to the tip of the front sight rather than drive the dot. With a blacked out target, blacked out rear, this doesn't work for my eyes very well. I can make good hits, but I'm always left wondering if I actually aimed where I wanted to. I went back and installed the Defoor front again, but this time I put two coats of white paint on the entire front sight followed up with 1 coat of satin lime green paint on top of that. I've found that this not only makes the front sight VERY visible across a broad spectrum of lighting and target colors (including black, obviously) but it also seems to allow me to see the edges perfectly as well. I'm going to run with this for the time being to see how well this works out for me. I also added two dashes of white paint on the rear on the top edges to give myself a reference. Not sure how crazy I am over that addition as taping off exactly what I wanted didn't work out all that well. We'll see how that works out, but there's a good chance that I'll probably end up taking it off. I probably shouldn't be trying to make so many changes all at the same time.
One thing I have noticed while dry firing though. I've been incorporating more one handed dry firing, which seems to have helped, but I'm still really struggling to get perfect trigger presses one handed on my G19. With my Gen2 G17, I don't have nearly as much problem getting a perfect trigger press. It seems like this is most likely due to the Gen4 trigger bar characteristics as it's noticeably different than my G17. My G19's trigger has about the same take-up, but past that it feels significantly heavier and clunkier with enough overtravel to make me wonder if I might not be inducing some torque the moment or split-second after the striker is released. I probably need to just go invent in a Gen3 trigger bar for it along with a couple of other small parts that the G17 needs.
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