Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 48

Thread: Trigger Finger Motion or Pressing the trigger straight to the rear

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by 60167 View Post
    I find that grip effects my trigger press. If the gun does not "fit right" then you will have poor trigger finger placement, leading to a poor trigger press. I tend to use the medium size beaver tail backstrap on my Gen 4 guns and grip force adapter on my Gen 3 guns.

    A lot of really smart people suggest using more trigger finger. I find that using the center of the pad works for me. Finger placement is really variable and dependent on hand size. Like previously stated, setting the gun up to maximize proper trigger finger reach via playing with back straps may be the ticket.

    I've also found that a good support hand grip keeps the gun from being effected by a bad trigger press.


    Read Surf's post. It helped me tremendously. I've gone back to it several times in the past couple years.
    Do you do this with other guns? I recently dumped a Glock 19 in favor of a VP9. I was amazed at how many problems disappeared. I am not blaming Glock but me + Glock is just not a good combo.

  2. #22
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Seminole Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by spinmove_ View Post
    Out of all of those pistols, I shot the G21 the best, BY FAR. I've never shot a G21 before, and to be honest, I didn't think I was going to do all that well with it because of how big and block that grip is. While I was still shooting that G21 slightly left, it was nowhere near that of my G19 or G17 which were ridiculously left (I'm talking sometimes 4-5 left at 21 ft.).
    I have battled this issue myself for years. I've got the issue under control where no matter what Glock I shoot, the left bias is so small it isn't worth losing sleep over.

    First...I think you have found the issue in your G21 experiment. The G21 is a larger frame than G17, G19. You should experiment with the different backstraps.

    I shoot fullsize glocks better with large backstraps. I even have small hands. Midsize and sub compacts are ok without any backstraps. The different size glocks interface with the hand differently.

    Secondly...you need to find the ideal place for your trigger finger. This is best done via Surf's method. This will be different for everyone. For example, even though I have small hands I have to use the very first "edge" of the first joint to get truly consistent and good accuracy during slow fire.

    Third...polish up the fundamentals. Front sight focus, clean trigger pull, no anticipation, follow through on sights, good grip technique.

    Fourth...and dead last...try drifting the sights to the right a bit.

    Possible Fifth...Try shooting some double action. Once I got decent with a DA/SA my striker shooting got much better.
    Last edited by fixer; 08-23-2016 at 06:19 AM.

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI
    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    You may also try this for diagnostic purposes... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post481103


    If you haven't already, take the time to read through that thread, as it specifically pertains to shooting left with Glocks.
    I have been reading through that thread as well for a bit, but perhaps I'll start at the beginning again.

    Quote Originally Posted by fixer View Post
    I have battled this issue myself for years. I've got the issue under control where no matter what Glock I shoot, the left bias is so small it isn't worth losing sleep over.

    First...I think you have found the issue in your G21 experiment. The G21 is a larger frame than G17, G19. You should experiment with the different backstraps.

    I shoot fullsize glocks better with large backstraps. I even have small hands. Midsize and sub compacts are ok without any backstraps. The different size glocks interface with the hand differently.

    Secondly...you need to find the ideal place for your trigger finger. This is best done via Surf's method. This will be different for everyone. For example, even though I have small hands I have to use the very first "edge" of the first joint to get truly consistent and good accuracy during slow fire.

    Third...polish up the fundamentals. Front sight focus, clean trigger pull, no anticipation, follow through on sights, good grip technique.

    Fourth...and dead last...try drifting the sights to the right a bit.

    Possible Fifth...Try shooting some double action. Once I got decent with a DA/SA my striker shooting got much better.

    1.) That might be part of it. I was running a medium backstrap on my G19 for a while, but ended up taking it off because it started getting uncomfortable. This was probably due to me getting lazy with gripping the pistol during dry practice/dry fire practice. I might throw the medium back on there as that would more closely match up with my G17Gen2 that I just picked up and would serve a certain commonality. I can't help but to wonder though if that a 2mm change is going to make THAT big of a difference.

    2.) I'm not sure if I'm familiar with Surf's method of finding ideal trigger finger placement. I'll see if I can find that resource here. Under stress, however, am I really going to have time to find ideal trigger placement especially if I somehow get a less than ideal grip on the draw?

    3.) Front sight focus isn't an issue. Through over exaggerating the trigger press I've gotten lazy on my grip. Follow through was something that I apparently misunderstood for quite some time. I think with JC's revised (for me) methodology of dry firing I'll be able to fix up my grip, follow through, and most importantly, trigger press all in one fell swoop. At least that's my hope anywho.

    4.) I know that I'm capable of delivering a good hit without having to drift my sights. I just need to stop screwing the shot up. The last thing I need is to give myself a crutch when I don't need one.

    5.) I do have an SP2022. Perhaps I'll break that guy out of the safe for a session or two this week just to change things up. We'll see.

  4. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI
    So I finally had a chance to finish reading through some of the threads that I found (and re-discovered) yesterday/last night. I'm going to go through and completely re-work my dry fire methods this week and see what I can come up with next week. Here are some random take-aways and thoughts that stood out to me while absorbing some information, in no particular order:

    1.) I've been focusing on the wrong aspects of the trigger press and ingraining bad habits that I now need to unlearn.

    2.) I've gotten lazy with my grip and establishing a platform for the gun.

    3.) Activating the traps and pecs while presenting/gripping the gun is a new concept for me. In attempting to achieve a goal (and not simply look like I'm gripping the pistol like the next guy) this makes a lot of sense to me and I'll be incorporating it with practice.

    4.) Accepting the wobble now has a deeper meaning to me. There really is so much stability that I can reasonably expect from being 70% water and structured by hollow sticks that are tied together.

    5.) I need to do ball and dummy drills.

    6.) I need a shot timer and a place that I can shoot pistol outside that doesn't have ridiculously draconian range rules. If anyone has any suggestions for where such a place may be in the metro Detroit area, I'm all ears (like, I will literally paste pictures of ears all over my body and listen as intently as humanly possible "all ears").

    7.) I need to work on "perfect trigger presses" on SHO/WHO more often. Dry fire practice with both hands should be more for confirming/ingraining grip and platform, SHO/WHO should be for perfecting the actual trigger press.

    8.) When I grip the pistol in dry fire practice, I do definitely get grip texture imprints on my hands without question. This leads me to believe that when I review shooting tip material and I'm told to grip harder, that I may in fact be taking that to heart and actually over-gripping the pistol. Improving my grip strength overall does need to happen, but the effort that I already put into it is probably where it should be.


    I think that covers most of it. It's certainly put my mind more at ease about the situation and I look forward to improving. I hope I just don't get carried away and get worked up over any mistakes along that way that I may eventually make.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Without being able to watch you shoot, I'm going to guess that your "slow fire grip" is pretty lame and the major cause of your issue.

    You said it yourself earlier - it doesn't seem to manifest when you shoot faster. That's because you're gripping the gun harder when you shoot faster.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Don't forget - you can grip your gun like a monkey grabbing a hammer

    OR

    you can direct the important parts of your hands into the parts of the gun which most matter.

  7. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Without being able to watch you shoot, I'm going to guess that your "slow fire grip" is pretty lame and the major cause of your issue.

    You said it yourself earlier - it doesn't seem to manifest when you shoot faster. That's because you're gripping the gun harder when you shoot faster.
    I think I agree with that to a point. I'm not disagreeing to be argumentative or anything, I'm just saying that, because you can't watch me right now, you don't have the full picture. With my last range session, I was purposefully gripping the living crap out of the pistol. I literally couldn't have gripped it harder. The harder that I gripped it in that manner, the further left the shots went. I'm guessing this exacerbated shot anticipation. When I shot the pistols faster, I didn't have time to focus on gripping the pistol harder. At least how I experienced it, I was gripping the pistol lighter, but I was also gripping it properly. Again, that's at least how I perceived how things happened.

  8. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Indiana
    I'll just add that what has helped me a ton is strong hand only dry fire. I'm not sure if it magnifies problems or learning to control the trigger one handed makes shooting with two that much easier. Also shoot a bunch of ball and dummy.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter taadski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Without taking on all the discussion permutations of "How hard should I grip the gun", I'd like to point out that pressing the trigger cleanly without disturbing sight alignment does NOT require a "strong crush grip". And I'd go further and say that if you can't press the trigger cleanly without a strong crush grip, your trigger press mechanics likely need work.

    None of this is to say that gripping the gun firmly is bad; quite the contrary. But I believe there is (1) a tendency for overgripping tension to cause problems in a lot of shooters (in particular when adjunct parts of the upper body are involved). And (2) that a strong grip can mask trigger mechanic issues when folks are trying to learn the basics of pressing the trigger correctly. It's one of the reasons practicing one handed drills are so valuable; one can't cheat the process as effectively via grip and can therefore get better immediate visual feedback regarding their mechanics.

    Again, I'm not advocating training this way all the time, but as a means of diagnostics, I think it can be particularly helpful.

  10. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Probably a few things at play. I haven't read everything posted in here so I apologize if I'm duplicating what others have said, but here are a couple thoughts.

    1) When people say "more finger on the trigger" it may not always be communicated that you may also have to shift your firing hand grip to get more finger on the trigger without pushing the gun left with the base of your trigger finger contacting the frame. I took a couple terrible phone pictures attempting to show what I mean:

    This photo shows proper placement, the trigger finger is not in contact with the frame of the gun at full take-up.
    Name:  IMG_1607.jpg
Views: 290
Size:  24.5 KB

    This photo shows incorrect placement, the entire trigger finger is in contact with the gun. It will have a tendency to push the gun left when pulling the trigger.
    Name:  IMG_1608.jpg
Views: 293
Size:  25.4 KB

    2) I think a hard grip is important for practical shooting, but I don't necessarily think of it in terms of gripping the gun as hard as possible with both hands. I think of it as anchoring the gun in the vise of my support hand, and keeping my firing hand relaxed enough to work the trigger rapidly (which I can't do reliably when it is super tense). I've seen a number of people over grip the gun with their firing hand and end up more likely to "milk" the gun with all fingers of the firing hand when pulling the trigger.

    3) A really good support hand grip can make up for some really terrible trigger/firing hand control. A good way to illustrate this point is to shoot at a dot at 5-7 yards. First, grip the gun extremely loosely with the support hand, then slap the trigger like it owes you money. The shot will probably end up several inches left. Now, grip extremely firmly with the support hand, making full contact with the gun. Use the same trigger slap. The shot should drill the dot, or be much closer. If not, you may need more work on how you grip with your support hand.

    Notwithstanding point 3, trigger control is really important. If you learn to watch what your sights are telling you, practicing with SHO/WHO drills will quickly tell you if you are on the right track or pushing the gun out of alignment as the shot breaks.
    TY83544

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •