Travis Haley - .7 second draw to headshot at 10 yds

[breakingtime91]

There are other factors as well that will cause people to do one or the other:

Type/length of DA pull: With a tuned CZ, for example, you can slap the DA trigger on anything inside 15 yards with no ill effects, whereas on a Beretta I would be more hesitant to do that.
Upper body/head position: If you stand more upright than tactical turtle, it is more difficult to do a press out the ToddG-way.
Natural Index: If you dry and live fire all the time and have an excellent index, you will probably get less out of a press out, as your sights will be in near-perfect alignment already when you reach extension. Even for long shots, someone with an excellent natural index will have to spend significantly less time cleaning up their sight picture.

Not to muddy the waters any more...

Thank you! I don't think you muddied them at all, appreciate your opinion

[GJM]

There are other factors as well that will cause people to do one or the other:

Type/length of DA pull: With a tuned CZ, for example, you can slap the DA trigger on anything inside 15 yards with no ill effects, whereas on a Beretta I would be more hesitant to do that.
Upper body/head position: If you stand more upright than tactical turtle, it is more difficult to do a press out the ToddG-way.
Natural Index: If you dry and live fire all the time and have an excellent index, you will probably get less out of a press out, as your sights will be in near-perfect alignment already when you reach extension. Even for long shots, someone with an excellent natural index will have to spend significantly less time cleaning up their sight picture.

Not to muddy the waters anymore...

All good points, which underscore the minutia of some of this stuff, and why ultimately the Internet is just a start. A person needs to then go try different things, put them on the timer, and figure out what works for them. Great in person instruction, though, can short cut the process.

[voodoo_man]

I would like to know what speed Travis would be comfortable operating at when stone cold and the hostage is a family member?

zinggg

[Luke]

I would like to know what speed Travis would be comfortable operating at when stone cold and the hostage is a family member?

It's been a while since I've shot at my family cold, so I'm a little rusty on the exact numbers but I will get them for you. I'd imagine Hayley's times are a little faster than mine.


What are your times?

[JCS]

I'm sure his time would be slower than .7 but he'd still be much faster than me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnO]

It's been a while since I've shot at my family cold, so I'm a little rusty on the exact numbers but I will get them for you. I'd imagine Hayley's times are a little faster than mine.


What are your times?

I have never trained with Travis but nonetheless he appears to be a very talented shooter. I do not doubt that there is value in practicing the drill he demonstrates in the video. There is no doubt that this drill depicts a hostage situation. The point of my previous question was to invoke reality.

I have plenty of practice small targets. Generally I work with a cranial ocular box of 4"x 3" because impacts outside that area have been know to be less effective. Engaging an partially obscured (approx.30%) 8" plate anywhere in a hostage scenario is at best a parlor trick. Especially in the sub second times. Additionally the holster position he is using is not typically associated with a typical carry location. Aside from being an open holster it is too far forward and yields a faster presentation. In all fairness a presentation from a concealed AIWB could easily be just as fast from a skilled operator.

In the real world with a real life practical application I don't see that shot happening without a touch more than a flash sight picture and a serious amount of sphincter pucker. With a perfect presentation and excellent reflexes (which Travis has in Spades) I don't see it happening in less than 1.5 seconds.

[GJM]

I would like to know what speed Travis would be comfortable operating at when stone cold and the hostage is a family member?

I think I saw his data on that. For his kid, he adds .75, for his wife he adds .50, his mother in law he doesn't adjust at all, and for Voodooman he stays with the .7 but fires two shots with one sight picture.

[Mitch]

Man, the only way this could have been better is if James Yeager did it.

[YVK]

If YVK wants to chime in why I am wrong

You're neither wrong nor right.

My opinion on a subject of DA trigger pull in presentation is verbose beyond my capacity to put it on the web. It is also possibly offensive so I don't want to put it on the web. A shortest nugget is that I don't think that people on the both sides of this argument (present-refine-pull vs press out; again, talking DA/SA) always do what they say they do. I don't think that you can run a V3 P2000 the same way you can run Stock 2; both are DA/SA. I think that the most important part of Gabe's posts was an implication that he tried all of that stuff himself, without preconceived notions and a lot, before coming to conclusion what works for him and his gun.


In regards to initial post, I once drew from an open holster at open target at 0.76. Once. And it was fucking hard to pull. Respek

[Sal Picante]

It has been my experience that people will default to either the easier method or the method which works best for them, not the method which applies to that specific situation.

Example being the guy who does a grab and rip two hand draw from appendix or strong side iwb during a combatives situation and gets popped in the face. Then going on to state he's trained them both.

I'm going to sign up for some combatives stuff... Stuff that, honestly, I have no fucking idea about. I keep thinking "sushi" when I hear people like SCW2 talking about "Rolling"... LOL

I'm curious if a lot of the gun draw stuff is overthought/overblown.


Some disclosure: I have a painfully slow and deliberate draw as far as competitive shooters are concerned. I'm lucky to break a .90 on a good day. That said, I can shoot a 25 yard A-zone all day at a 1 second par. I'm hoping to change some of that going forward.

I do know for certain that I don't work the trigger "on the way out" at all: draw the gun, aim, mash trigger...

Watch it in .25 or .5 speed...