Travis Haley - .7 second draw to headshot at 10 yds

[breakingtime91]

Yes. The difference is limited to how much cleaning/finalizing of the sights and trigger happen once the gun is at full extension and stopped. But the 'raw draw' itself is the same structure and manner at 5 or 50.

That's pretty typical of the explanation out of the competitive shooting world, and is in contrast to some of the ideas associated with the press-out. I think a lot of the practitioners of the the press-out would argue to modulate the speed/precision of extension in order to time the shot to be at or near the end of horizontal extension - instead of modulating the amount of sights and trigger cleanup after the gun is extended. I've done both and I think they can both be done very well. At present, I pretty much adhere to the conventional idea of drawing at max speed regardless of the target difficulty.

But, there is a tiny universe at the end of extension where the gun is being slowed to a stop, while cleaning up the sights and trigger at the same time, and in that little world which is very interesting, it might be hard to tell who is the tortoise and who is the hedgehog.

very interesting. Gabe, how much do you think trigger type plays in peoples decisions between a press out or a more conventional draw (speaking of the max speed regardless of target difficulty)?

[Mr_White]

very interesting. Gabe, how much do you think trigger type plays in peoples decisions between a press out or a more conventional draw (speaking of the max speed regardless of target difficulty)?

I do think that plays into it, but probably at the intuitive level for a lot of shooters. Especially if their belief is basically that a draw is a draw - I think on PF we go on a crazy deep dive about the draw that I haven't seen in other places. I think it's worth noting that DA triggers are something that the various press-out ideas attempt to mitigate, in effect. Doesn't mean they can't ever be worked another way, but I don't think I've ever read a 'press-out origins' discussion that didn't note that the press-out was intended as a way to get an accurate DA first shot in the same kind of time frame as other action types. I think a lot of people recognize intuitively that you can't get on a 1911 trigger during a press-out like you would need to get on a DA trigger during a press-out.

[ReverendMeat]

I understand having an attachment to gear seen as realistic and relevant - I certainly impose the burden of that attachment on myself (strong Timmy.) But there are a lot of motivations and methods out there and I don't think it's fair or realistic to expect my attachments to be adopted wholesale by others.

A 0.70 draw is excellent from any gear, including the Limited/Production/range training setup Haley is using. Nicely done!

I'm sorry sir, but you must be new to the internet. Shitting on everything and everyone is part of the culture and if you go around with positive contributions you're gonna stand out like a sore thumb. Just warning ya.

[GJM]

I don't think trigger type matters in terms of what method you use. What Gabe describes, is extending the pistol briskly regardless of the shot, but only varying the very last part where you address sights and trigger depending upon trigger type and shot difficulty. Alternatively with a classic press out, most of the length of the presentation is quite variable depending upon the shot difficulty.

I think method one is easier, as most of your draw stroke is consistent, the gun is locked up, and you are just varying the very last bit for sights, trigger, and to avoid anticipation. We refer to this as a "mini press out."

[breakingtime91]

I do think that plays into it, but probably at the intuitive level for a lot of shooters. Especially if their belief is basically that a draw is a draw - I think on PF we go on a crazy deep dive about the draw that I haven't seen in other places. I think it's worth noting that DA triggers are something that the various press-out ideas attempt to mitigate, in effect. Doesn't mean they can't ever be worked another way, but I don't think I've ever read a 'press-out origins' discussion that didn't note that the press-out was intended as a way to get an accurate DA first shot in the same kind of time frame as other action types. I think a lot of people recognize intuitively that you can't get on a 1911 trigger during a press-out like you would need to get on a DA trigger during a press-out.

Cool, thanks for answering my questions. Was there something that made you switch what you did or was it just the evaluation of your skills and training that changed the way you draw the gun?

[GJM]

Seems like the boxes we are trying to check with the draw are:

Don't shoot ourself or someone else we don't intend to shoot.

Shoot the target, accurately, as quickly as possible.

Make it repeatable, as in "on demand," whether under match or food court stress.

Draw with a grip that allows you to shoot more than one shot with good recoil control.

Get on the trigger as late as possible to maximize Nyeti evaluation time.

Draw in such a way it maximizes reliability of the pistol.

Make it reasonably easy to learn.


Figure out whatever method checks as many of those boxes as possible for you.

[Trukinjp13]

I am a fan of Haley. I know some dudes hate him, but Such is life. I am not saying I agree with everything or think everything he does is perfect. But the dude can shoot. He stays is top shape and stresses repetition. Seriously though? How can you knock the speed and accuracy?


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[breakingtime91]

I don't think trigger type matters in terms of what method you use. What Gabe describes, is extending the pistol briskly regardless of the shot, but only varying the very last part where you address sights and trigger depending upon trigger type and shot difficulty. Alternatively with a classic press out, most of the length of the presentation is quite variable depending upon the shot difficulty.

I think method one is easier, as most of your draw stroke is consistent, the gun is locked up, and you are just varying the very last bit for sights, trigger, and to avoid anticipation. We refer to this as a "mini press out."

so trigger travel and weight of the trigger don't impact how long or short the press out is? Also I understand what he is saying George, just find it to be opposite of what Ernest says. When two really good shooters say something, I kinda want to know why their opinions differ

[Drang]

Seems like the boxes we are trying to check with the draw are:

Don't shoot ourself or someone else we don't intend to shoot.

Shoot the target, accurately, as quickly as possible.

Make it repeatable, as in "on demand," whether under match or food court stress.

Draw with a grip that allows you to shoot more than one shot with good recoil control.

Get on the trigger as late as possible to maximize Nyeti evaluation time.

Draw in such a way it maximizes reliability of the pistol.

Make it reasonably easy to learn.


Figure out whatever method checks as many of those boxes as possible for you.

So much wisdom there, so broadly applicable to more than "just" a fast draw to first (accurate) shot.

[voodoo_man]

Arent most drills not "real life" nor dont intend to be?

I am the type that tries to give credit where credit is due regardless of how I feel about the person. If you dont feel .7 from the draw is impressive, could you post your .5 for us to admire?

If we all walked around in the same rig he is using in that video every single day then maybe anything he said or did would matter, except it does not since we do not.

I want to see him do a .7 from concealment with his incog, then I'll throw my hands up in worship, but we all know that won't happen.

Fact is he's doing an instructor zero bit here.

Look at me everyone, watch me do this cool super fast thing after talking about something that isn't applicable at all!

I am not drinking his kool aid and his none sense does nothing other than exhibits his need for self justification.

I'd wager we have a bunch of members here that can and have done .7 draws from a non-retention open top owb holster that's forward of the A-line. I'd bet good money that a money of them can replicate if not out run haley in an average day at the range.