Thoughts on BUG location for civilians who carry AIWB

[sharps54]

Skip the next three paragraphs if you don't want the background to the question.

Let me preface by saying I'm not a LEO and don't open carry. If I was in a position where my primary had to be carried on my strong side belt I wouldn't be asking as I do think it is important to carry a BUG in the same position when possible.

With that out of the way I'm just a short, fat civilian that has recently seen the light on AIWB carry. In the past I have carried strong side behind the hip or pocket carry. We bought a house at the beginning of the year and money has been pretty tight, tight enough to change my practice philosophy. For a number of reasons I decided (convinced myself) to switch to a J frame as a primary carry gun instead of my Glock 26. I could go into those reasons (wife prefers wheel guns, better suited for dry fire practice, shares reloads with my J frame BUG, conceals much better AIWB due to my gut, DAO trigger might offer a slight margin of safety if my training fails and finger goes on trigger unconsciously, and so on) and I plan to do so in the training journal entry I'm going to start after my range trip this week but this post isn't really about the gun itself. My main aim here is where to carry the second gun.

Do I as a civilian need to carry a BUG? If I was carrying the bottom feeder I would say probably not, although it doesn't hurt, but when carrying a J frame the New York reload is a valid technique, especially since the preferred way to deal with a stoppage for a revolver is to draw a second gun. I do carry reloads in a manner that allows me to reach at least one with either hand.

For the time being I'm carrying two J frames, usually 442 pros. I carry one AIWB and am flexible enough to calvary draw with my support hand from the waistband so why should I carry the second gun in my support side pocket as opposed to the strong side pocket? If I am in position to have my hand in my pocket wouldn't it be preferable if that is the strong hand? If I am seated (driving, in a restaurant, whatever) and can't easily get to the pocket I can just draw from the AIWB with my strong hand. If I can't carry AIWB I can still pocket carry in which case the pocket gun becomes primary anyway. By keeping the second gun in my strong side pocket I'm standardizing that location for all the times I carry.

My thinking is that a gun in a pocket it is only accessible to one hand where AIWB is accessible to both. If I start with the gun in the strong side pocket the AIWB becomes the BUG and is accessible to both hands. If I start with the AIWB the gun in my pocket becomes the BUG and is only accessible to one hand, if that hand is out of commission I'm screwed.

I know I'm overthinking this but unlike a patrol officer I'm not seeing a reason to carry the second gun in my support side pocket as long as I'm carrying one of my guns accessible to either hand. I'm not able to comfortably carry both AIWB, yes I tried, so one will end up in a pocket the only question is which pocket.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts / input.

[BehindBlueI's]

I believe pocket carry of a second gun makes a lot of sense for AIWB carriers. The two carry positions have different strengths that cover the other's weakness (appendix being hard to conceal a draw from face to face but is fast, easy to draw from while seated...pocket being slow to access and tough to draw while seated, but easy to conceal a draw as compliance if being robbed). Pocket carry is also pretty strong for retention. I don't think I've had anyone pick-pocketed of a gun, certainly not in a front pocket.

[Mjolnir]

I believe pocket carry of a second gun makes a lot of sense for AIWB carriers. The two carry positions have different strengths that cover the other's weakness (appendix being hard to conceal a draw from face to face but is fast, easy to draw from while seated...pocket being slow to access and tough to draw while seated, but easy to conceal a draw as compliance if being robbed). Pocket carry is also pretty strong for retention. I don't think I've had anyone pick-pocketed of a gun, certainly not in a front pocket.

It's far more revealing to draw strong side hip than AIWB.

Pocket carry is difficult to get to.

I once carried strong side IWB while carrying AIWB.

Why? Leaving the range with a friend but the persons sharing the range looked and acted a bit shady so I did not wish to drive home or leave anything in the car while we got a bite to eat.

It works but that cannot be an everyday carry solution for many. Hell, not even for me!


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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[BehindBlueI's]

It's far more revealing to draw strong side hip than AIWB.

We're face to face. I have a gun on you and demand your wallet. Tell me how you draw AIWB without looking like you're going for a gun.

[JodyH]

I believe pocket carry of a second gun makes a lot of sense for AIWB carriers. The two carry positions have different strengths that cover the other's weakness (appendix being hard to conceal a draw from face to face but is fast, easy to draw from while seated...pocket being slow to access and tough to draw while seated, but easy to conceal a draw as compliance if being robbed). Pocket carry is also pretty strong for retention. I don't think I've had anyone pick-pocketed of a gun, certainly not in a front pocket.

Completely agree.
There is no faster non-telegraphed draw than from a pocket if you start with your hand on the grip.

When dealing with unknowns I like to slightly blade, my right hand is in my pocket on the grip of my PM9.
I like to place my left hand in "chin stroking contemplation" position.
This puts me in a good position to defend my head from a right haymaker (most common sucker punch) or to throw a left jab and is a good distraction from my right hand.
It's also not as overt as the "interview position".

As to pocket carry accessibility, I almost exclusively wear Duluth cargo pants or shorts with huge front pockets and use quality smooth leather pocket holsters. 2 seconds from the buzzer to 2 "A" body hits at 5-7Y is my usual stating hands relaxed at sides.
If I start from hand on the grip it's sub-1 sec. to the first hit.

I usually consider my pocket carried PM9 to be my "primary" and my AIWB P30SK is my "reload" or becomes my primary if I have more time to setup the draw.

[JodyH]

We're face to face. I have a gun on you and demand your wallet. Tell me how you draw AIWB without looking like you're going for a gun.

Of course I'll give you my wallet and my keys sir... *reaches into pocket just like the bad guy demands*.
Compliance... compliance... compliance... WTF?!?! OODA reset.

[Totem Polar]

Good to see you posting regularly again, Jody.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I'm on board w Jody and BBIs.

I carry AIWB 95% of the time. When I carry a BUG it is a J in my strong side pocket.

[Mitch]

I've been thinking about BUGs a lot lately. Here is my main issue. A J-Frame seems to be the best option for pocket carry and a pretty good ankle gun, too. But a 5 shot .38 is a 1 bad guy gun to me, and just last week I read about someone was robbed by two armed attackers. That person was also walking alone and the robbery happened at 12 AM or 1, and I don't do stuff like that, but still. I'd hate to be dealing with more than one opponent, the primary gun goes down hard, and I'm left with a 5 shot .38. Is that asking too much of a BUG? I don't know.

The flip side to that is I also see a lot of value in a pocket gun (which screams J-Frame to me) for exactly the reasons Jody mentioned.

I want a G26 as a back up gun to my G19. I don't know if that is realistic. I may look at a Kahr P9 on the ankle, I think that's 7 or 8+1 and around 15 oz empty. That sounds almost ideal, but I know next to nothing about Kahrs and their reliablity.

Sorry for the thread drift. But living near Chicago, BLM, and possible election fall out has put this at the forefront of my mind lately.

[Kennydale]

G17 (AIWB) Ruger LCP left front pocket behind slim (Dash) wallet