Thoughts on BUG location for civilians who carry AIWB

[Prdator]

I'm a big fan of non dominant side pocket carry with a dominant side AIWB carry. I think it's hard to beat.

[Paul Sharp]

Have you ruled out ankle carry?

re; multiple opponents. If it's an armed robbery or self defense scenario, and our primary gun goes down is a second gun an optimal choice? If we have distance, then going to a second gun in a pocket or on our ankle is somewhat of a non-issue since distance equals time so we should be able to get our secondary pistol into play easily enough despite suboptimal location. If we don't have distance, the downed pistol in hand is a nice 1-2 pound fist-load, or a centerline belt mounted fixed blade might be a better option. If a FB isn't available then going hands on in berserker mode might be our only option since the time it would take to dig out a second pistol, not to mention a hand going to our waist/pocket/ankle is a hand that isn't protecting our melon or monitoring our opponents weapons/hands in a fight... It's also a hand that could be inflicting damage on our opponents.

[sharps54]

I'm a big fan of non dominant side pocket carry with a dominant side AIWB carry. I think it's hard to beat.

I respect that, in fact taking your class earlier this month is what prompted this thread.

In post #5 of this thread JodyH described my plan almost perfectly so it isn't just me. I understand carrying in the support side pocket for LEOs to standardize on and off duty but I'm just a regular joe. As I alluded to in the OP there are times I have to tuck my shirt in where I'll just pocket carry and if all I have is one gun I want it accessible to my strong hand. My desire for both guns to be accessible to my strong hand may be my perceived need to go to the second J frame if I have any problems or run dry.

Mr. Sharp,
I think you are answering 125 mph's post but I fully agree with your points. If you were asking me about ankle carry I have but when possible I wear shorts so I tend to look for methods that work regardless of time of year. Also I can only see doing a NY reload if the situation allows it. I have signed up for ECQC next year so hopefully I'll have a better understanding after that class.

[Paul Sharp]

....Mr. Sharp,
I think you are answering 125 mph's post but I fully agree with your points. If you were asking me about ankle carry I have but when possible I wear shorts so I tend to look for methods that work regardless of time of year. I can only see doing a NY reload if the situation allows it. I have signed up for ECQC next year so hopefully I'll have a better understanding after that class.

I was responding to your initial post. I approach this from the mindset of a fighter, and the premise that it's a fight. Not a gun fight, knife fight, koala fight... It's just a fight, and I'm a fighter so we'll get it on in whatever range and using whatever means necessary to prevail. So when I think about secondary pistols I think about the scenarios I've been in, or know about and the role the secondary pistol played. All the rules of in-fight weapon access apply, we quickly realize it's even more challenging when we start looking at the ways we are forced to carry a secondary pistol.

I think the sleight of hand type ideas suggested in the posts above are a great idea, and probably the best use of a second pistol in a contact distance incident.

[sharps54]

I was responding to your initial post. I approach this from the mindset of a fighter, and the premise that it's a fight. Not a gun fight, knife fight, koala fight... It's just a fight, and I'm a fighter so we'll get it on in whatever range and using whatever means necessary to prevail. So when I think about secondary pistols I think about the scenarios I've been in, or know about and the role the secondary pistol played. All the rules of in-fight weapon access apply, we quickly realize it's even more challenging when we start looking at the ways we are forced to carry a secondary pistol.

I think the sleight of hand type ideas suggested in the posts above are a great idea, and probably the best use of a second pistol in a contact distance incident.

Got it, thanks!

[JodyH]

I've been thinking about BUGs a lot lately. Here is my main issue. A J-Frame seems to be the best option for pocket carry and a pretty good ankle gun, too. But a 5 shot .38 is a 1 bad guy gun to me, and just last week I read about someone was robbed by two armed attackers. That person was also walking alone and the robbery happened at 12 AM or 1, and I don't do stuff like that, but still. I'd hate to be dealing with more than one opponent, the primary gun goes down hard, and I'm left with a 5 shot .38. Is that asking too much of a BUG? I don't know.

The flip side to that is I also see a lot of value in a pocket gun (which screams J-Frame to me) for exactly the reasons Jody mentioned.

I want a G26 as a back up gun to my G19. I don't know if that is realistic. I may look at a Kahr P9 on the ankle, I think that's 7 or 8+1 and around 15 oz empty. That sounds almost ideal, but I know next to nothing about Kahrs and their reliablity.

Sorry for the thread drift. But living near Chicago, BLM, and possible election fall out has put this at the forefront of my mind lately.

I primarily use a Kahr PM9 as my pocket pistol.
6+1 9mm is a decent little payload in a pocket sized package.

Kahr can be very hit or miss on what they let out of the door but the PM9 series seems to be one of their best products.
I always install a Wolff (+) recoil spring because it helps smooth up the first round from a full mag feeding into the chamber and slows the recoil impulse down just a bit.
My oldest PM9 has been 100% since day one.
My second PM9 was always reliable but cracked/broke magazine followers, 10 minutes with some jewelers files to shave a few thousandths off the bottom of the feed ramp and it's been 100% since.
Contact me via PM if you want more info on the care and feeding of Kahr PM9's.

[Cecil Burch]

There are few (realistic and plausible for civilians) situations that a good snubby carried AIWB, a second snubby in the weak side pocket, and a small fixed blade knife carried around centerline on the belt, and the SOFTWARE SKiLLSET TO POWER them won't fix.

Chuck Hagagrd and I had a couple of longggggg car rides together recently where we talked about this. He was the one who proposed the idea to me, and I tried for hours to poke holes in it, and I really couldn't. Which is no surprise since Marshall Haggard kind of knows what he is talking about. The only point I brought up that mattered was that there had to be a good software package to go along with the hardware. The person carrying this way not only had to be good at shooting a snub, they also needed to have a good H2H delivery system to keep them in a fight, as well as knowledge and practice in bringing a knife into play (not just relying on the knife itself to magically take care of the issue). and a true appreciation for the problems inherent in pocket carry - especially on the weak side (not just paying lip service to the problem, but taking steps to mitigate it as much as possible).

It is a good argument, even though I personally don't take that path (I still prefer a semi-auto for bad bad guy servings).

[JodyH]

PM9 in my pocket, P30SK AIWB, Clinch Pick centerline. That's pretty close to dual snubbies.

[ssb]

What's the reasoning behind the snub on the belt?

[Isaac]

For me, it's just for comfort. I cant handle a Glock AIWB.

My primary, in my current town and lifestyle is a snub, but if I want a 2nd gun on me, it's a G26 at 4:00 IWB.