Somethings and someones are very different.Originally Posted by GJM
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Somethings and someones are very different.
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Perhaps my post isn't valid as I do not speak from experience,
but:
"Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition."
Quoted from here
It's also "worth" quoting:
"Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios."
After waiting with great anticipation my Shorty 40 finally arrived last night. The weapon exceeded my expectations and is absolutely flawless. LNIB as far as I can tell. Now that I've actually held and shot a Shorty 40 I can post with a bit more authority (very small though it may be) and will attempt to respond to the specifics of the OP's query.
Of course the "best" in the above categories, short of scientific measurement, is somewhat subjective. I can only give my "take" on these from my own limited experience and from those as reported by the fanboys in the S&W forum. (hearsay I know, but if you read it one the internet it must be so, no?). So here is my somewhat biased shot at it:
~ Recoil Management? ~ I'm not very recoil sensitive, shooting .44 mag, 10 mm, and .357's out of an 11 oz. AirLite, but the Forty seemed no more abrupt than my 3913NL & 3914LS. Those are lighter guns which may make a difference but until I shoot them all side by side I can't detect a difference in recoil between the .40 & my 9mm's.
~ Reliability ~ The Shorty 40 is 10 for 10 with me. That's a pretty limited sample, but over in the S&W forum there is a poster who claimed 40k rounds out of his Shorty Forty and the other Shorty Forty owners have all reported trouble free operation over many thousands of rounds. This weapon has a 25 year old track record. I'll have to give it a "passing with flying colors" here.
~ Durability ~ Same as above. The only plastic in or on the gun are the grips and the tiny plastic plunger that activates the magazine safety. I'm getting rid of that as soon as I put nite sights on it.
~ After Market Support ~ Not much here, but I won't give it a "Fail" as the parts are out there. Very limited factory support, but parts are available. Magazines are outrageous as in most 3rd gen Smiths, but the Shorty also accepts the 11 round 40xx series. Actually I've got the 3 9 round mags that came with it, but I've also got 6~7 11 rounders for my 411.
~ Accuracy ~ While I'm sure the first firing group I posted is more indicative of my failings as a shooter than the accuracy of the weapon, Seems to shoot a bit to the left on the shots that I felt had a good sight picture and release (shots that are touching on the target). On close examination it appears that the front sight is a tiny bit right of center, so drifting that to the left a little should bring it to point of aim for me. The "flyers" were sent in aimed but rapid fire, the stray at the top must have been poorly aimed, all me, total user error.
The trigger in double action is super smooth, feels like the pull on my model 69. The break is very crisp and very light in SA. My 3913NL has a trigger job by "T" and this one is even lighter and smoother. I don't have a gage to measure it but it is clearly better than any other handgun I own, including revolvers.
At any rate, in my unqualified opinion, the 3rd gen "Shorty Forty" produced by the Smith & Wesson performance Center over 25 years ago is the best .40 handgun.
Digiroc
Addendum:
Ok, I've got to admit while picking the gun up last night an waiting for authorization at my FFL he handed me an M&P 40, also from the Performance Center, and it was pretty nice. Ported barrel and slide. I don't know if that helps or just gives you more muzzle flash, but it sure looked cool. The sights were outstanding fiber optic things that shown brightly, green in front, red in back. Light and very slim, a pretty compelling carry gun. When I think about it sending one of those to a possibly extended stay in an evidence locker, I'd have to go with the M&P.
Last edited by Digiroc; 09-03-2016 at 06:25 AM. Reason: added target
Recoil is typical for a compact .40. If you've fired, say, a 229, there won't be anything here to surprise you.
The "10 for 10" thing is inane, as are vague internet claims from Someguy at Randomforum.com. No, it doesn't have a "25 year old track record" since, like most Performance Center guns, the vast majority were snatched up by collectors and disappeared into gun safes with "Do Not Open Until Retirement" warning labels. .40 cal Third Gen Smifs in general seem to be fairly reliable, although all the ones I had exhibited some sensitivity to COAL and the shape of the meplat. In the Cambrian Era of po-po .40 autos, they didn't have quite the same "feed anything" rep enjoyed by Glocks or Sigs.~ Reliability ~ The Shorty 40 is 10 for 10 with me. That's a pretty limited sample, but over in the S&W forum there is a poster who claimed 40k rounds out of his Shorty Forty and the other Shorty Forty owners have all reported trouble free operation over many thousands of rounds. This weapon has a 25 year old track record. I'll have to give it a "passing with flying colors" here.
He asked about durability, not how many plastic parts the gun had. There are plenty of guns that are ate up with plastic and are very durable like the Glock 17, and there are guns that are all metal and which have the life expectancy of a cancerous fruit fly, like the Beretta 96. .40 cal Smith Third Gens don't have a rep for cracking frames or major parts breakage, and that's good, because parts are next to nonexistent, especially for limited run models that differ in major subassemblies from their more common brethren. (Also, I can't recollect if the PC guns had the plastic disco like the regular ones. I know by the mid-'90s that even the TSW guns had the nylon part there. Because it worked better.)~ Durability ~ Same as above. The only plastic in or on the gun are the grips and the tiny plastic plunger that activates the magazine safety. I'm getting rid of that as soon as I put nite sights on it.
Aftermarket support does not refer to what you are talking about. Instead, it refers to availability of holsters, aftermarket sights, et cetera. If I wanted an AIWB holster from a big name factory kydex bender or custom leather stitcher, will they have one ready to ship? Will they have a mold gun to make me one? Or will I have to ship them my gun to get a holster made? If I want to try the latest sights from Warren Tactical or 10-8 or whoever, will they have them for my make and model of gun or am I shit outta luck?~ After Market Support ~ Not much here, but I won't give it a "Fail" as the parts are out there. Very limited factory support, but parts are available. Magazines are outrageous as in most 3rd gen Smiths, but the Shorty also accepts the 11 round 40xx series. Actually I've got the 3 9 round mags that came with it, but I've also got 6~7 11 rounders for my 411.
With the Shorty Forty, you're pretty much SOL for aftermarket support.
Mechanically, that gun should be capable of shooting a group that size or smaller at two-and-a-half times the distance you were firing at. Your skill level (and mine) is probably not good enough to notice the difference in accuracy between that gun and any random plastic cop gun on the market today unless we were firing from a rest.~ Accuracy ~ While I'm sure the first firing group I posted is more indicative of my failings as a shooter than the accuracy of the weapon, Seems to shoot a bit to the left on the shots that I felt had a good sight picture and release (shots that are touching on the target). On close examination it appears that the front sight is a tiny bit right of center, so drifting that to the left a little should bring it to point of aim for me. The "flyers" were sent in aimed but rapid fire, the stray at the top must have been poorly aimed, all me, total user error.
"Smooth" is vague. So is "light". How light is "light"? Did you measure it with a trigger gauge? No? Then how do you know it is lighter than your other guns, including revolvers? Fingers lie, scales don't.The trigger in double action is super smooth, feels like the pull on my model 69. The break is very crisp and very light in SA. My 3913NL has a trigger job by "T" and this one is even lighter and smoother. I don't have a gage to measure it but it is clearly better than any other handgun I own, including revolvers.
You just don't know what you don't know. There's nothing wrong with that, per se, but it's so.At any rate, in my unqualified opinion, the 3rd gen "Shorty Forty" produced by the Smith & Wesson performance Center over 25 years ago is the best .40 handgun.
Digiroc
Last edited by Tamara; 09-03-2016 at 07:08 AM.
Woops, fat fingers on a phone. Meant to go back a page, not post...
Last edited by VT1032; 09-03-2016 at 06:53 AM.
At the LGS, yesterday, 3 VP-40's in the case; guy says they can't sell them. Says ratio of 40's to 9's sold in his store is about 1:10. Of course, this is CT; not much need for a .40 as a woods gun.
Good rebuttal Tamara, but I wouldn't discount the experiences as related on the S&W forum. Many examples have been fired thousands of times in the past 25 years (although I'm happy mine seems to have been a safe queen). Any Barretta like problems would have surfaced by now I would think, but then again I won't know until I've fired thousands of rounds of my own.
If you don't mind Tamara, could you educate me on "COAL" and "me plat" ? Then there will be two things I'll know that I don't know now.
Digiroc
Last edited by Digiroc; 09-03-2016 at 07:54 AM.
Cartridge OverAll Legth. Simply the total length of a loaded cartridge.
Meplat is the flat face (or open tip in a hollowpoint) of a bullet. A typical 40 S&W having more of one than pretty much any 9mm. Or 357 Sig having one at all where many 9mm bullets don't for that matter. In revolver land, a semi-wadcutter cheating in a secondary meplat at the shoulder for clean cutting versus a simple flat point and a wadcutter being all meplat.
Thank you Hi-Point, you have schooled me. ~ Digiroc
Last edited by Digiroc; 09-03-2016 at 09:53 AM.
I think you and I might be related... I LOVES ME some fo-tay-favh, but, not when I'm paying for ammo, and my agency is still trying to prime the pump on getting some in the supply system...
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