Double homicide and LE response

[Chuck Haggard]

Sounds very much like a high level excited delirium case. ExD can be caused by a number of things, or a combo of factors, including cocaine induced psychosis, meth, bath salts, smoking "wet", schizophrenia, PCP.

The only less than lethal force that works effectively on people in an ExD state are a good Taser shot or LVNR/rear naked choke. Team tactics can work as well if you have enough people and they work together. In this situation, with my training and experience, I would have used my snub to contact shoot the bad guy in the head, I have very little doubt of that.

My first serious encounter with a high level ExD cases was a very, very straight laced college kid who had never done anything, not even drink, but didn't want to be uncool and took some hits off of the joint he was passed. That joint was dipped in "wet". Not that many minutes later he was buck nekid, tearing up the apartment, later attacked a campus security officer, destroyed his car, and was trying to jump into the air to grab out police helicopter (orbiting at about 500 feet...) when I rolled up.

[Nephrology]

Sounds very much like a high level excited delirium case. ExD can be caused by a number of things, or a combo of factors, including cocaine induced psychosis, meth, bath salts, smoking "wet", schizophrenia, PCP.

The only less than lethal force that works effectively on people in an ExD state are a good Taser shot or LVNR/rear naked choke. Team tactics can work as well if you have enough people and they work together. In this situation, with my training and experience, I would have used my snub to contact shoot the bad guy in the head, I have very little doubt of that.

My first serious encounter with a high level ExD cases was a very, very straight laced college kid who had never done anything, not even drink, but didn't want to be uncool and took some hits off of the joint he was passed. That joint was dipped in "wet". Not that many minutes later he was buck nekid, tearing up the apartment, later attacked a campus security officer, destroyed his car, and was trying to jump into the air to grab out police helicopter (orbiting at about 500 feet...) when I rolled up.

I know the ACLU and the NAACP like to hate on excited delirium as a Dx because it often is the cause of death for suspects who have been tasered and/or are in police custody... but it's absolutely real, and really scary to see in person.

[lwt16]

Well it looks like the story now is that the kid arrived at the restaurant to meet his parents, which means he was probably already on whatever he took when he got there.

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What is your source?

[HCM]

Sounds very much like a high level excited delirium case. ExD can be caused by a number of things, or a combo of factors, including cocaine induced psychosis, meth, bath salts, smoking "wet", schizophrenia, PCP.

The only less than lethal force that works effectively on people in an ExD state are a good Taser shot or LVNR/rear naked choke. Team tactics can work as well if you have enough people and they work together. In this situation, with my training and experience, I would have used my snub to contact shoot the bad guy in the head, I have very little doubt of that.

My first serious encounter with a high level ExD cases was a very, very straight laced college kid who had never done anything, not even drink, but didn't want to be uncool and took some hits off of the joint he was passed. That joint was dipped in "wet". Not that many minutes later he was buck nekid, tearing up the apartment, later attacked a campus security officer, destroyed his car, and was trying to jump into the air to grab out police helicopter (orbiting at about 500 feet...) when I rolled up.

For those who aren't hip like Chuck, "wet" is PCP.

Like everyone else, I wasn't there but in general face eater = deadly force, if proximity to the victim is an issue - contact shots are an option. If rule 4 considerations preclude contact shots, My options would be baton strikes to the head or LVNR.

[AMC]

Bath salts, meth, crocodil.........sure. That's what it looks like at first, until it spreads. Fear the walking dead. The Zombie apocalypse is here. Notice we're saying the only thing that works is head shots.......just sayin'.

[BehindBlueI's]

For those who aren't hip like Chuck, "wet" is PCP.

Like everyone else, I wasn't there but in general face eater = deadly force, if proximity to the victim is an issue - contact shots are an option. If rule 4 considerations preclude contact shots, My options would be baton strikes to the head or LVNR.

It's been awhile, but I also recall "wet" being dipped in formaldehyde. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.

[Nephrology]

It's been awhile, but I also recall "wet" being dipped in formaldehyde. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.

I think the formaldehyde bit is an urban legend... smoking dried formaledyde residue (or any similar non-polar solvent/fixative) would probably just give you a really irritated airway and maybe later on cancer. Doesn't have psychoactive properties I am aware of.

edit: in anatomy lab when I would get really, ah.... intimately acquainted ... with the deeper bits of my cadaver's thorax/viscera, or when I had to do a lot of blunt dissection of fat + muscle with my fingers, my fingers would very quickly get tingly and then go totally numb. It was a little concerning. I started doubling up on gloves and eventually buying the expensive 0.7mm ones but even that didn't totally solve the problem. Definitely would not advise ingesting it in any form.

double edit: looks like we are BOTH right...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_...mbalming_fluid

"A commonly held misconception is that phencyclidine (PCP, angel dust) is the same as (or is synthesized from) embalming fluid. Some people, believing this myth, have actually attempted to smoke cigarettes or cannabis dipped in real embalming fluid (i.e. formaldehyde), which is highly toxic. Conversely, some users of PCP-laced cannabis believe (and are often told) that it contains embalming fluid proper and not PCP, or that the slang term "dust" really means embalming fluid proper. Sometimes, the two substances are even mixed together, in a further ostension of this legend.[102][103] Such concoctions are often called "fry," "wet," "illy," "sherm," "worm," "water-water," "amp," "dust(ed)," or other names."

[Trooper224]

It doesn't have to be bath salts. 100% THC will achieve the same thing. THC extract, known as ear wax, is extracted from marijuana by boiling. The resultant paste is where the "ear wax" moniker comes from. Smoking it pure, or putting it into edibles like brownies, cookies, etc., is becoming very common. Ingest too much of it and you become a delusional paranoid psychotic. This is not your dad's marijuana, ala Cheech and Chong, that turns you into a apathetic couch potato. That stuff has, on average, five to seven percent THC content. That's why the last face eater only had THC in his system. Of course, the tree hugging tokers want to promote the mental illness angle of the situation. Heaven forbid the majic weed would do anything other than makes us love one another and cure every disease known to man. Politicians who push for marijuana legalisation still think of it as the weed they smoked in their college dorm, which it's far from these days.

If anything ever qualified for face shooting you think it would be face eating.

[Gray222]

Sounds very much like a high level excited delirium case. ExD can be caused by a number of things, or a combo of factors, including cocaine induced psychosis, meth, bath salts, smoking "wet", schizophrenia, PCP.

The only less than lethal force that works effectively on people in an ExD state are a good Taser shot or LVNR/rear naked choke. Team tactics can work as well if you have enough people and they work together. In this situation, with my training and experience, I would have used my snub to contact shoot the bad guy in the head, I have very little doubt of that.

My first serious encounter with a high level ExD cases was a very, very straight laced college kid who had never done anything, not even drink, but didn't want to be uncool and took some hits off of the joint he was passed. That joint was dipped in "wet". Not that many minutes later he was buck nekid, tearing up the apartment, later attacked a campus security officer, destroyed his car, and was trying to jump into the air to grab out police helicopter (orbiting at about 500 feet...) when I rolled up.

Agree with above.

I'd had a few run ins with persons suffering from this immediate crisis.

Rear naked works best when applied correctly.

[El Cid]

I would have likely done a contact head shot. The Miami PD officer a couple years ago did that in a very similar scenario and saved the homeless guy getting eaten.