Details out on Glock 17M

[StraitR]

Is it that hard to accept a possible design flaw from Glock at this point, or are we still doing the whole "If a problem is not acknowledged, then a problem simply does not exist*." thing? It is what it is, and I'm glad they caught it now (whatever it is) in a manner that didn't cost anyone their life. Embarrassing? Absolutely, but it could have been much, much worse. The only certain failure I see so far is that these guns were already in the holsters of cops on duty when a deadlining issue was found.

*Like the M guns not being sold commercially, but nobody will talk about it, even after the question has been asked multiple times.

We can bicker all we want, but the fact is, everybody on PF is either LEO or supports LEO and Glock seemingly takes care of the boys in blue better than anyone else. Nobody here is rooting against Glock, or the 17M, or the people in which it was designed for.

Not to derail, but the breakage issue is most likely in a training timeout until the guns are looked at by Glock. So not being in touch with all things LEO, what other guns have been issued and pulled for deadlining issues in the past?

[GJM]

If the gun can be assembled with a part being installed in more than one way, and not all of those ways result in proper function, it is a design problem, pure and simple. Key the part so that it only goes into the assembly in one way; otherwise, people will put it in the wrong way. That is poka-yoke 101.

There is plenty of that now in the Glock and other firearms. As I recall, TLG put the bearing rod in backwards in his test G17, sometime during the test. We have had connectors put in the 43 improperly causing issues, and so on. In a perfect world, the design would prevent stuff like that. In that same perfect world, only a skilled armorer would disassemble pistols beyond slide/barrel/frame.

[JSGlock34]

What times we live in. Glock hasn't even publicly announced this model, there are no 'official' photographs, and yet we're actively following the blow by blow of the first rollout. I'm sure there is a lesson somewhere in there for companies contemplating new product roll outs and testing.

[GJM]

What times we live in. Glock hasn't even publicly announced this model, there are no 'official' photographs, and yet we're actively following the blow by blow of the first rollout. I'm sure there is a lesson somewhere in there for companies contemplating new product roll outs and testing.

One obvious lesson for Glock, and other companies in a smiler situation, is to dispatch skilled tech reps with the shipment of a new product, and babysit the intro of that new product into service.

[RJ]

Here's the latest - IMPD apparently issued a statement? I'm amused that photos have to leak on the sly but posts about the recall...

TFB: Glock Recall Update

I have a stupid question.

So these 150 pistols went to line LEOs as replacements for their duty G22s?

Is it common for a PD to issue 150 new guns to rank and file officers without some kind of confirmation test or evaluation by that PDs firearm training department?

[BehindBlueI's]

I have a stupid question.

So these 150 pistols went to line LEOs as replacements for their duty G22s?

Is it common for a PD to issue 150 new guns to rank and file officers without some kind of confirmation test or evaluation by that PDs firearm training department?

I've already addressed this earlier in the thread.

So not being in touch with all things LEO, what other guns have been issued and pulled for deadlining issues in the past?

Indiana State Police pulled magazines for the P227, but not the guns. I don't know the underlying reason, troopers I spoke with didn't have any issues. IMPD pulled magazines for the Gen 3 Glock 22 due to issues with function with a weapon mounted light, but it did not resolve the issue and the dept went to Gen 4. I'm sure there are others, but they rarely get any publicity. This is just big news because it's the new "M" and all the hype that's surrounded it.

[farscott]

One obvious lesson for Glock, and other companies in a smiler situation, is to dispatch skilled tech reps with the shipment of a new product, and babysit the intro of that new product into service.

Another obvious lesson is one needs to perform tests that are representative of how the products are used in the field. If your product is LEO firearms, tests involving holsters are necessary.

As an engineer, I will be the first to tell you that failure modes are sometimes missed in the design. It is one of the reasons prototypes are built and tested. Testing is just as important for good products as design and manufacturing, and it is one area that smaller companies often address only through lip service. That is because testing is expensive and time consuming and is seen only as a cost center, not a profit center, by bean counters. Properly done testing, however, results in products that perform as expected and increase a brand's reputation and value.

[RJ]

Another obvious lesson is one needs to perform tests that are representative of how the products are used in the field. If your product is LEO firearms, tests involving holsters are necessary.

As an engineer, I will be the first to tell you that failure modes are sometimes missed in the design. It is one of the reasons prototypes are built and tested. Testing is just as important for good products as design and manufacturing, and it is one area that smaller companies often address only through lip service. That is because testing is expensive and time consuming and is seen only as a cost center, not a profit center, by bean counters. Properly done testing, however, results in products that perform as expected and increase a brand's reputation and value.

+1,000.

Users are an amazing thing.

You field the product, and they start to use it in ways you did not expect. The normal human reaction is "Hey! WE DIDN'T DESIGN IT FOR THAT!!"

Which is completely wrong, of course.

You have to suck it up, buttercup, and realize your test protocols sucked.

BTDT.

[Edster]

(deleted)

[TCinVA]

Nope. They are supposed to fit any 17/22 holster as there was no significant change to externals that would require a new holster.

That's pretty much what I figured. But dimensional changes nobody thought should be a big deal for holster fit could potentially play a role in something like this.

No doubt, Indy is using holsters that hold the gun too limply.

...or perhaps just the opposite. Perhaps.

Indiana State Police pulled magazines for the P227, but not the guns. I don't know the underlying reason, troopers I spoke with didn't have any issues. IMPD pulled magazines for the Gen 3 Glock 22 due to issues with function with a weapon mounted light, but it did not resolve the issue and the dept went to Gen 4. I'm sure there are others, but they rarely get any publicity. This is just big news because it's the new "M" and all the hype that's surrounded it.

IIRC it was the Indiana SP that pulled Glock 22's from the field and issued 17's after the 22's turned out to be a total disaster.

EDIT - Yup!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1616676/posts

2006!