Magpul BAD - is it just that?

[Zhurdan]

I know of very few people who can use them without issues. You also need to consider why you would add it to a gun. Do we really need to increase our speed to clear a really bad malfunction or do we need to spend a little more time/money/effort into preventing that type of malfunction? Also consider the risks if you are for some reason shooting the gun leaning against cover. The lever can very easily be pushed in from the left side, not a risk I would want to take.

Sample of one, of course, but mine runs like a top. I've never had it not lock back on empty, which seems to be the overwhelming gripe about the BAD from other people.

Training to clear malfunctions isn't just because you have shoddy equipment, it's because if bad shit's gonna happen, it's gonna happen at the worst possible time. The BAD I have rides on a Noveske, but simply because I have a great piece of equipment doesn't mean I shouldn't prepare for the excrement to hit the oscillator. I realize that's not what you meant, but it's kinda how it sounded.

I can't envision a shooting position that would bring the lever into contact with a hard surface. Prone right, nothing there but sky. Prone left, can't see how you can get the gun that low to the ground as you'd most likely be shooting at a slightly upward angle anyways. Barricade right, don't get that close to the barricade (sticking muzzle out is bayud, mmmkay). Barricade left, same as right. Please elaborate.


*ETA* For the record, I like the BAD. It's not the end all, be all of gun parts, but I find it functional. The day it ceases to become functional or becomes a hindrance, it'll come off the gun.

[orionz06]

Training to clear malfunctions isn't just because you have shoddy equipment, it's because if bad shit's gonna happen, it's gonna happen at the worst possible time. The BAD I have rides on a Noveske, but simply because I have a great piece of equipment doesn't mean I shouldn't prepare for the excrement to hit the oscillator. I realize that's not what you meant, but it's kinda how it sounded.

That wasn't exactly what I was saying. I have heard many people talk like shooting was not fun for them because they had issue locking the bolt back when needed (their gun sucks) and the BAD was a significant improvement. Likely not the case here. As for malfunction clearances and the frequency in which they are trained, I am not saying not to, I was implying that efforts could be placed elsewhere. And again, most often the folks using the BAD (the ones I am familiar with) are using it to make shooting shoddy equipment easier.

I think the technique you use, BAD Lever or not, is more important. This was shown in a carbine class over the summer where someone was clocked with and without it. They were proficient enough for me to consider the results valid and there was only a marginal difference.

I can't envision a shooting position that would bring the lever into contact with a hard surface. Prone right, nothing there but sky. Prone left, can't see how you can get the gun that low to the ground as you'd most likely be shooting at a slightly upward angle anyways. Barricade right, don't get that close to the barricade (sticking muzzle out is bayud, mmmkay). Barricade left, same as right. Please elaborate.

It was mentioned by an OIF/OEF vet that strange situations have occurred where they envisioned the BAD Lever to be an issue. Not sure of all the details so I will leave it at that. We were shooting around vehicles that day, so I think we both have an idea what situation he was envisioning.

[Odin Bravo One]

I tried one for a few months, but never really figured out what it did for me. Since it didn't really do anything to improve performance, I took it off.

[Dropkick]

I too will admit I am NOT well versed in long guns.

However, I attended a 1911 course last year with Larry Vickers. The host for the class brought his carbine into the classroom to show LAV and it was equipped with a BAD lever. All I can say is LAV ripped into him (in a humorous way, not ill spirited at all) about how BAD = BAD.

Never thought I'd share mind-space with "The LAV"
I think I feel dirty.

[HK_Feeder]

Hey guys, new member here. Figured I'd break the ice on this topic since I have experience with the Magpul B.A.D. lever on my rifle. I loved it to death, and never had a problem with it. That little lever made a world of difference (IMO, anyway) on the expedient operation of the rifle and also made one-handed malfunction drills almost enjoyable. At the time I was running a mid-length gas system with the Enidine recoil-reducing buffer, and after sending thousands of rounds (including some pretty dirty stuff) downrange, never had the issue of the bolt failing to lock back, as others have mentioned. I believe what this means is that the lever's effectiveness varies from setup to setup. IMO, if you're on the fence, I believe it's worth the try and highly recommend it. If it doesn't work, ditch it. If it feels unsafe to you, ditch it. If you don't like the way it looks, remove it for your internet forum photo-ops. The one and only gripe I had with the lever was that it came loose after a couple months. Definitely lock-tite that f*cker.

[theblacknight]

I too will admit I am NOT well versed in long guns.

However, I attended a 1911 course last year with Larry Vickers. The host for the class brought his carbine into the classroom to show LAV and it was equipped with a BAD lever. All I can say is LAV ripped into him (in a humorous way, not ill spirited at all) about how BAD = BAD.

Can you revisit this verbal ripping? I started a similier thread at m4 http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?...ight=BAD+lever and when Grant said If I ever showed up to a Vickers course with a BAD lever, to stand the fuck by, BUT WOULD NOT say exactly why in a round about way,which to me means "Well Larry said not to use it BC Larry says not to HERP DERP".

I've never had a problems with to one on my personal OPPS rifle and on my issued ride. My opps rifle has seen 4000r of privi and about 1500 of silver bear and wolf.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C4IGrant
Don't do that. Use it and attend their classes. This is much more enjoyable. "



Please ,tell what would happen.
__________________



Originally Posted by C4IGrant
Good things (especially if they told the instructor that it was "flawless" and then had an issue). ""


No, I'm serious, what would happen. I wouldnt tell anyone it's flawless, I would just say I havent had a reason to take it off.

I don't want to put words in your mouth but since your soo brief, it sounds like they would do whatever just to make sure there is some kind of problem with it because they dont personally like it. Is that accurate? I hope not.

[TCinVA]

I don't want to put words in your mouth but since your soo brief, it sounds like they would do whatever just to make sure there is some kind of problem with it because they dont personally like it. Is that accurate? I hope not.

Based on my experiences on the range with LAV, it would go like this:

1. LAV will warn you about a particular event occurring due to that piece of equipment. This will be done kindly and with considerable humor...not in an R. Lee Ermey drill sergeant manner.

2. You will probably note that you've never had a problem with it before. LAV will look at you for a moment and then go on with the class.

3. Within 60 minutes of his warning, the exact phenomenon he predicted will occur and then your gear selection will become a teaching point...and LAV will close the session with something along the lines of perhaps having learned something during all those years in an elite SOF unit.

4. At some point during all of this, you may be in the danger zone for incontinence due to laughter.

You see, LAV has special powers. At some point he gained mastery of the gremlins that cause malfunctions and gear problems and now seemingly has the ability to summon them at will. Do you know how many reloads I've done from a pocket in a Vickers class? Exactly one. Out of all the time I've spent on the range with LAV, I've done precisely one pistol reload from a pocket. This was done less than 60 minutes after he warned that carrying a spare mag in a pocket would cause problems. Some people remarked that they've never had a problem. (Not me, because outside of a class environment I don't carry mags in pockets.) Nevertheless, LAV looked at me for a second and moved on. Sure enough, I perform a reload with that mag in the pocket and the gun goes bang once...then locks up.

I clear the malfunction and find a bit of breath-mint wrapper had wrapped around the nose of a round in the mag and had wedged in the chamber, stopping the gun. Pocket debris had caused a malfunction, just like he said. Now if I had only seen something like that happen once, I could chalk it up to coincidence. But after a few dozen times you start to wonder if he's a wizard.

He doesn't have to touch your gun or make you perform any bizarre actions that will cause a problem. He doesn't distract you while the AI tinkers with your gun to make the bad thing happen. All I've ever seen him do is say "Dude, that's going to do X." and then X happens. I'm reasonably certain he only uses his powers for good.

[orionz06]

Based on my experiences on the range with LAV, it would go like this:

1. LAV will warn you about a particular event occurring due to that piece of equipment. This will be done kindly and with considerable humor...not in an R. Lee Ermey drill sergeant manner.

2. You will probably note that you've never had a problem with it before. LAV will look at you for a moment and then go on with the class.

3. Within 60 minutes of his warning, the exact phenomenon he predicted will occur and then your gear selection will become a teaching point...and LAV will close the session with something along the lines of perhaps having learned something during all those years in an elite SOF unit.

4. At some point during all of this, you may be in the danger zone for incontinence due to laughter.

You see, LAV has special powers. At some point he gained mastery of the gremlins that cause malfunctions and gear problems and now seemingly has the ability to summon them at will. Do you know how many reloads I've done from a pocket in a Vickers class? Exactly one. Out of all the time I've spent on the range with LAV, I've done precisely one pistol reload from a pocket. This was done less than 60 minutes after he warned that carrying a spare mag in a pocket would cause problems. Some people remarked that they've never had a problem. (Not me, because outside of a class environment I don't carry mags in pockets.) Nevertheless, LAV looked at me for a second and moved on. Sure enough, I perform a reload with that mag in the pocket and the gun goes bang once...then locks up.

I clear the malfunction and find a bit of breath-mint wrapper had wrapped around the nose of a round in the mag and had wedged in the chamber, stopping the gun. Pocket debris had caused a malfunction, just like he said. Now if I had only seen something like that happen once, I could chalk it up to coincidence. But after a few dozen times you start to wonder if he's a wizard.

He doesn't have to touch your gun or make you perform any bizarre actions that will cause a problem. He doesn't distract you while the AI tinkers with your gun to make the bad thing happen. All I've ever seen him do is say "Dude, that's going to do X." and then X happens. I'm reasonably certain he only uses his powers for good.

This man speaks the truth. Not only did a shooter in a recent class have to remove his flawlessly performing BAD Lever he also had to replace his now broken MS2 sling because what the LAV said would happen did.

[Jay Cunningham]

He doesn't distract you while the AI tinkers with your gun to make the bad thing happen.

Actually his AI went around one time peeling off all the stupid factory stickers that were on my spare Glock 19 magazines when I wasn't looking.

[theblacknight]

So all I have to to keep my guns running is stay away from Larry? Coo

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