Punta Gorda Police: Woman shot during Citizen Academy dies

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've done quite a few FOFs with J frames and Code Eagle rounds or the like. We were patted down twice and we all looked into the cylinder of the guns before each exercise.

I like airsoft better nowdays - not that they don't sting and they do break the skin if close up. Ouch.

[psalms144.1]

I like airsoft better nowdays - not that they don't sting and they do break the skin if close up. Ouch.

And the cleanup with airsoft is a couple of minutes with a broom, versus washing paint off walls/furniture, etc. And, you can get away with less extensive protective gear - simple long sleeves, a face shield mask, MAYBE a throat protector if you've exceptionally sensitive, and gloves.

On the Federal side, Sims requires full helmet, throat guard, chest protector, groin protector, sleeves, and hard knuckle gloves. By the time you get all that crap on a student, they're amped up to the sky, and it's hard to get a response out of them except to empty their pistol at everything that moves...

My favorite set up for FOF is either everyone with Airsoft, face shields, sleeves and gloves. As pointed out, airsoft is plenty stingy enough to provide some stress. I've done some scenarios where BGs only have blanks, but I think that reduces some of the learning. A well controlled and scripted role player with an airsoft gun and the understanding his/her job isn't to crush the trainees is key...

[Dagga Boy]

I honestly wonder how many agencies using things like Sims are actually sending their people to very in depth and extensive instructor training for how to properly use these training aides. Also, if they do have specially trained individuals for this type of training, are they actually running and supervising it? I did a lot of citizens academy teaching. I was used specifically to teach about use of lethal force. I was also a certified SIM's instructor. We never used any sort of SIM's with non-sworn personnel in a heavily supervised training evolution. There is a reason for that. Now FATs stuff, great. FOF, not a fricking chance if my name was remotely associated with it.

[RJ]

Curiouser:

http://www.policeone.com/officer-sho...demy-exercise/

"Officer Lee Coel was a Miramar police officerfor 14 months before he was stripped of his badge and gun due to excessive force complaints filed against him."

[Dagga Boy]

I am just reading where you hire basically a rookie fired for excessive force issues.......and give him a dog inside of a couple years....priceless, or in his case the price tag will be staggering with all the coma's and zero's.

[K.O.A.M.]

I'm going to keep my comments brief and theoretical because there is a strong possibility I may be hired to defend a party to this in a civil lawsuit. That being said, there are potential claims for negligent hiring, negligent training, and (due to the prior incidents) deliberate indifference. This is bad and it would not surprise me to see a grand jury consider manslaughter charges against not only the shooter, but others involved in the training program.

[Dagga Boy]

Those were all the EXACT same words that came to mind. I was big on documentation regarding all of those things when the brass liked to thrust stupid in my direction. When the political union board members looking to promote are complaining about all your Deliberate Indifference memo's, you are likely doing e right thing and really pissing the brass off by making them financially and politically accountable when some Captain or Chief listening to the good idea fairy turns out to be very wrong

[AMC]

What nyeti said. It's amazing how some command types react to written documentation of problems. They're all about "accountability" until it's on them......then it's "Don't send me any of these fucking memos!". Now....I email everything. They can't claim they never saw it by round to g it. One of our previous range masters was a co-worker of mine e. When he took over, I asked him what his plan was. He said, "Plan? Whatta you mean?" I laid out a six month plan of auditing lesson and, training in records, POST requirements, and travelling to several other agencies in the state to audit their courses. It would culminate in a memo notifying the department that we were indefensible in a Sec 1983 action alleging failure to train, because we actually had no training program to defend. He looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "You can't write down something like that!"

[Shellback]

Another fucktard let's one go inside a middle school...

A Rockwood Police Officer accidentally fired a live round of ammunition during a “blank-fire” drill at Rockwood Middle School Thursday morning.

“We had an accidental discharge that should not have happened,” Rockwood Police Chief Danny Wright told 10News. “Nobody was ever in danger.”

Should read "negligent discharge."

[rsa-otc]

What nyeti said. It's amazing how some command types react to written documentation of problems. They're all about "accountability" until it's on them......then it's "Don't send me any of these fucking memos!". Now....I email everything. They can't claim they never saw it by round to g it. One of our previous range masters was a co-worker of mine e. When he took over, I asked him what his plan was. He said, "Plan? Whatta you mean?" I laid out a six month plan of auditing lesson and, training in records, POST requirements, and travelling to several other agencies in the state to audit their courses. It would culminate in a memo notifying the department that we were indefensible in a Sec 1983 action alleging failure to train, because we actually had no training program to defend. He looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "You can't write down something like that!"

Don't think that the private sector is any different. I have been fighting those demons since 1990. Before that I was with a family owned company who took this shit seriously. We actually were one of the only armored car companies that had it's own range in the basement. That was both the facility built in the 1950s and the larger facility we moved into in the mid 60s