Punta Gorda Police: Woman shot during Citizen Academy dies

[John Hearne]

I honestly wonder how many agencies using things like Sims are actually sending their people to very in depth and extensive instructor training for how to properly use these training aides. Also, if they do have specially trained individuals for this type of training, are they actually running and supervising it?

We require a two-week course that combines use of force law with force-on-force scenario management - referred to as non-lethal training ammunition (NLTA). The program is taught by FLETC and is one of their better offerings.

We are required to follow our agencies guidelines whenever training is run and the standards mirror the ones from FLETC. This means that you have to have two instructors who have been through this special class to conduct training.

I'm not trying to be flippant about safety but the overhead of running scenarios (instructors, NLTA weapons, protective gear) quickly becomes pretty onerous and it prevents us from training in the medium as often as we should. It is not uncommon for our folks to go YEARS between force-on-force scenario training.

Prior to the formal FLETC course, we sent people to the Simunitions instructor course. I still think that course is worthwhile as they had a lot of neat tips and tricks that you develop from frequent use of the equipment.

The nice thing about using Simuntions in lieu of blanks is that chambering a live round is not possible if you use the provided inserts.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Shortly after becoming a Simunition scenario instructor, I shot down one or two "Good Idea Fairy" eggs, regarding some kinda demo at the school with on-duty officers/deputies participating come-as-you-are style. The safety protocols for Sims are onerous for very good reasons. Airsoft is in kind of sweet spot in that regard.

[Shellback]

Officer and Chief charged.

Punta Gorda Police Chief Tom Lewis and officer Lee Coel have both been charged in the case of a retired librarian shot and killed in a citizen’s police academy, the state attorney’s office said.

Coel has been charged with manslaughter, a first-degree felony, and Lewis charged with culpable negligence, a second-degree misdemeanor...

$2 Million Settlement.

[DiscipulusArmorum]

Various FDLE documents and exhibits have been released, giving us some more facts about this tragedy. Officer Coel loaded Blazer hollow-based wadcutters instead of the intended .38 special blanks into his personal weapon. He had two boxes of HBWC in his car, along with three boxes of Winchester .38 blanks (and another box of Fiocchi .380 blanks).

It was apparently common practice for him to use his personal revolver in training scenarios, sometimes with live ammunition based on some testimony from a fellow officer (dirt flying up on the backstop after a shot during training, for example). It sounds like he may have been loading these HBWC in the gun for some time, thinking they were blanks.

As far as where he got the ammo, the report says his supervisor, a Lt. Heck "acknowledged that she 'probably' gave Ofc. Coel the two boxes of CCI Blazer HBWC .38 caliber ammunition. Lt. Heck believed the cartridges in the Blazer boxes were blanks; not lethal ammunition. Lt. Heck stated that she obtained the Blazer ammunition from her husband, John Heck, who had the ammunition stored at their residence." One of Lt. Heck's fingerprints was on the HBWC box, so she's "probably" right about giving them to Coel.

[Vinnie Bagadonuts]

This is not far from my home. In any case it's a sad and unfortunate occurrence.

[blues]

This is not far from my home. In any case it's a sad and unfortunate occurrence.

Every time I hear or read about this incident I just shake my head in wonder and sorrow at the needless loss.

Apropos of nothing, last night I called an old college friend (out of the blue) whom I haven't seen or kept in touch with since 1974 when I and some other dorm mates attended his wedding near Lake Placid, NY in the Adirondacks. It was just like old times. He's retiring from NY State Corrections, (he's the equivalent of a warden at a medium security facility), and moving to Punta Gorda later this year. I'll have to remember to let him know about this incident if I can remember to call him before another 40 years go by.

[LSP552]

I've probably told this story before, but I know and am friends with a former officer who shot and killed his best friend in the "staging room" of a SIM house years back. They were using conversions, not dedicated SIM guns, and there was no one in the department certified as a less lethal training ammunition specialist. After AM training, they went into the staging room, peeled off protective gear, converted pistols back to "live" and loaded, then went to lunch. After lunch, reversing the process, they were in the staging room when his buddy, dressed out in protective gear "attacked" him, f-ing around. My dude drew his pistol and shot his buddy between the eyes, without thinking that he hadn't converted back to SIMS yet. He told me, years later with tears in his eyes, that he thought his friend was just "acting" when he threw himself back and laid unmoving on the floor...until he saw the blood.

I don't remember when this happened, but it was late 90s, early 2000s. The fact that shit like this is STILL happening in 2016 is UNFUCKINGACCEPTABLE. Period. Full stop. Nothing follows.

Prayers out to the family of the deceased, and to the officer who will likely be haunted by this for the rest of his life.

A friend of mine did almost exactly that. Left for court after morning training, came back and went directly to the scenario area. Did a demo without having cleared his issue P220 and killed a student from another agency at the LSP Academy. This happened around 1998-99, IIRC

So much wrong occurred to have even made this possible. Despite more and better widespread knowledge and instructor training, this continues to happen.

So preventable!!!

Prayers for all involved.

[blues]

A friend of mine did almost exactly that. Left for court after morning training, came back and went directly to the scenario area. Did a demo without having cleared his issue P220 and killed a student from another agency at the LSP Academy. This happened around 1998-99, IIRC

So much wrong occurred to have even made this possible. Despite more and better widespread knowledge and instructor training, this continues to happen.

So preventable!!!

Prayers for all involved.

Your and Kevin's story give me a hollow, nauseous feeling inside as I can only imagine the aftermath of something like that occurring during the many training scenarios I was part of over 20+ years. I can't even fathom living with that weight. I just can't.

[El Cid]

It was apparently common practice for him to use his personal revolver in training scenarios, sometimes with live ammunition based on some testimony from a fellow officer (dirt flying up on the backstop after a shot during training, for example). It sounds like he may have been loading these HBWC in the gun for some time, thinking they were blanks.

Wait... other officers noticed impacts during training like we see with live rounds and nobody spoke up or asked to see what he was shooting?!?! I don't even know what to say about that.

[HCM]

Wait... other officers noticed impacts during training like we see with live rounds and nobody spoke up or asked to see what he was shooting?!?! I don't even know what to say about that.

Part A of the FDLE Report says the officer and K9 supervisor test fired a round at a county SO range in July in preparation for a K9 demo but apparently did not motive the impact because they were only checking to see how loud the rounds were.

In part B, page 6 of the FDLE report, after Mrs Knowlton was shot, one of the county SO K9 deputies told other deputies he saw dirt flying at the berm during the demo shots.

On page 9 and 13/14 two deputies said the saw dirt or grass move during the test fire but thought it was from a wad or just concussion.

http://www.ci.punta-gorda.fl.us/gove...tive-documents